Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

Very well said Erica! I am a California heterosexual woman ... by your side, as an ally, fighting for you! Justice will prevail.

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• Posted by pineconepaula on November 21, 2008 at 10:51 a.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

There's one standard for marriage in California that applies to everyone. That's not discrimination. Anyone who meets that standard can get married. That's not creation of second-class citizens. There is no sexual orientation question when getting a marriage license. But marriage is (at least for now) what it's always been, and when people decide not to conform to the definition doesn't mean I've discriminated or made a second-class citizen of them.

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• Posted by Brandon_Minster on November 21, 2008 at 8:43 a.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

I'm an ally of the LGBT community, but I really don't see what all these protests are doing? Protesting alot isn't going to overturn proposition 8. Education campaigns, reaching out to the people who "hate" would do alot to strengthen your chances to obtain the rights you seek. The people have spoken in California, and it says to me that many are still ignorant. The LGBT community needs to make a strong case of how they are being discriminated against; how not having the right to marry their loved one could cause harm, and spread that message to as many people as they can, especially the minority voters who voted for prop 8. I am disappointed it passed, but if seems like people in the LGBT community expected this to fail, otherwise I'm sure there would have been more outcry BEFORE the election against proposition 8.

I still think its ironic that our divorce rate keeps going up, and people who are against gay marriage always think that it will cause the divorce rate to go up and devalue the "Sanctity" of marriage. I don't think marriage is very sacred anymore, since so many people seemed to take it very lightly and get divorced, then marry 3 or 4 more times. I really don't think allowing two dudes to get married will devalue the sanctity of marriage, since more than likely the two dudes have been waiting 10 years to get married.

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• Posted by sjschlag on November 21, 2008 at 10:13 a.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

I agree with the first poster here. Prop 8 doesn't regulate you all to seperate schools, force you to sit in the back of buses, make you use seperate bathrooms, etc. All prop 8 does is regulate marriage in the state of California to one man and one woman.

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• Posted by kunomu on November 21, 2008 at 10:52 a.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

Erica, I couldn't agree more--thanks for writing such a moving piece. We are indeed fighting for all the things you mention: gay rights are both a civil rights and a human rights issue. Heterosexual people have redefined marriage over the years: in its current form, a civil institution that protects and honors the intimate relationship between two people, there's no rational reason why it should not be equally available to gays and lesbians. (I'm all for letting churches do whatever they want--for me it's a civil rights issue, and a human rights issue).

The South African ruling, that granted marriage equality there in 2005, puts it better than I can:

"The exclusion of same-sex couples from the benefits and responsibilities of marriage was not a small and tangential inconvenience resulting from a few surviving relics of societal prejudice destined to evaporate like the morning dew. It represented a harsh if oblique statement by the law that same-sex couples are outsiders, and that their need for affirmation and protection of their intimate relations as human beings is somehow less than that of heterosexual couples. It signifies that their capacity for love, commitment and accepting responsibility is by definition less worthy of regard than that of heterosexual couples. The intangible damage to same-sex couples is as severe as the material deprivation."

Gay people face a unique set of civil and human rights issues. That these are not identical with those faced by racial minorities does not mean they are any less real or damaging.

To be denied basic human dignity, to have your relationships deemed less worthy than heterosexual relationships, to be excluded from one of the most meaningful institutions in our society is indeed to be legally defined as a second-class citizen.

The success of a democracy is not measured exclusively by the extent to which society protects the majority. That's the easy part. It's measured instead by the degree to which a society has mechanisms in place to protect the rights, freedoms, and human dignity of minorities. Some things should never be put up to majority vote.

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• Posted by karen on November 21, 2008 at 12:39 p.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

I don't know, vladislav. I would say that this is a fight for civil rights since it is a battle for legal equality rather than the right to practice homosexuality. Homosexual couples are not afforded the same rights as married couples. The only way to remedy this is by giving them the same legal status. Proposition 8 in no way bans homosexuality, so it is not a fight for a lifestyle.

Having said that and having expressed my disagreement with banning gay marriage several times, I must say that I am appalled by the tone of the protests that have taken place in California and in many urban centers. Screaming racial epithets at demographics who voted for the proposition, breaking into church services and interrupting them, rioting, threatening individuals for their campaign contributions, and sending letters laced with powder do not help the cause.

I will gladly support any legislation or court actions that allow homosexual couples to marry. I will support a peaceful movement. But I will not express solidarity with thugs no matter what their cause is.

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• Posted by connerm on November 21, 2008 at 3:10 p.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

thank you for not responding to my post whatsoever and ignoring my point completely, em1.

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• Posted by juniper08 on November 23, 2008 at 9:10 p.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

It's been said before, but its worth saying again. You can get a civil union in California, you can also get a gay marriage in CT or MA (both very nice places btw). If you have a problem with the law in CA, (or KS for that matter), feel free to pack up and move to a more "tolerant" state. States have the right to pass laws as they see fit, and the people of California have spoken, and their voice sounds a lot like the voices in many other parts of the country. Nobody wants to move you to the back of the bus, or make you use a different water fountain, you aren't being sold into slavery or packed up and moved onto a reservation. Maybe that's why so many minorities have a problem with you comparing your plight with theirs.

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• Posted by em1 on November 23, 2008 at 4:40 p.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

em1- "Nobody wants to move you to the back of the bus, or make you use a different water fountain, you aren't being sold into slavery or packed up and moved onto a reservation."

Actually, when comparing same-sex marriage to the civil rights movement, it's more related to the ban on interracial marriage that got overturned in the 60s. And actually it is directly related to this situation since the majority of America wanted to DEFINE marriage as being between only people of the same race. It's sounds absolutely horrible now, but I suppose if a black person wanted to marry someone of another race before then they should have just moved to another country, right? They should have just stopped complaining and being intolerant of others by protesting, because marriage is a blessed union between two people of the same race, right?

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• Posted by juniper08 on November 23, 2008 at 5:43 p.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

OK so, you're comparing the inter-racial marriages with gay marriages. The difference is ONE CAN RESULT IN A NATURAL FAMILY and the other can not. Any questions? Last I checked, Gays and or lesbians can not procreate in and of their own free will. They need scientific help and/or they need to adopt.

Gays and lesbains can adopt kids either way, as can single parents (even in CA), you can write up POA's to get whatever rights you want....spouses don't even get full rights without POA's, living wills and other documentation. I know. I've tried to talk to my husbands finance company about the mortgage on our house but I CANT as his spouse because I'm technically not on the mortgage (even though I am on the deed)...I need a POA or his written permission and signature

It's the "tax break" that pisses you off....admit it.

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• Posted by cath0830 on November 23, 2008 at 11:37 p.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

So we'll compare the plight of homosexuals in the US to the experiance of minorities in this country from its founding to the present day. This is garbage, and minorities know it. My grandfather was pulled out of his home in Deleware and shipped to what is now known as Haskell University when he was very young for "civilizing" because he had grown up around natives and wouldn't have made it in the world without being shipped half way across the country and reprogrammed. That doesn't even touch on the fact that many of his ancestors were slaughtered just for living in this country. What you are complaining about as a denial of rights doesn't even belong on the same page as what many minorities have experianced in this country. The number of minorities supporting prop 8 should shed a little light on this subject. This isn't the same issue, not by a long shot.

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• Posted by em1 on November 23, 2008 at 8:51 p.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

There were 13 states (all in the south) that banned interracial marriage. 30 states have banned gay marriage and these states are spread out all over the country. How can you compare the banning of gay marriage with the banning of interracial marriage?

Kansas. As bigoted as California. And Florida.

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• Posted by em1 on November 23, 2008 at 11:28 p.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

1. Not every civil rights struggle looks the same: civil rights are about equality under the law. GLBT people are not saying that we are treated exactly as African-Americans have been. We are saying that we are denied equal rights under the law.

2. The ability of a couple to produce children biologically is not a litmus test for marriage or any committed relationship. Heterosexuals have demonstrated that quite effectively.

3. The scientific evidence suggests that homosexuality is just as "natural" or "unchangeable" as heterosexuality. Lots of people don't want to accept that, either on religious grounds or because they grew up thinking otherwise. But we have to be guided by the best rational evidence. Lots of the opinions expressed here seem misinformed, based more on personal prejudice than science or reason.

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• Posted by karen on November 24, 2008 at 6:26 a.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

Bigots will always come up with excuses for their bigotry. "Tradition" is only the most popular one of these excuses.

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• Posted by kshusker on November 24, 2008 at 11:42 a.m.
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Letter: Why haven’t you joined the Prop 8 protests?

There's no such thing as gay marriage. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Prop 8 is upholding a tradition, as you say. But this tradition needs to be a law to prevent further decay of our society.

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• Posted by peteyLo on December 18, 2008 at 2:08 a.m.
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