Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Melanie, I am sorry, but I think you are wrong. They are young adults. They care about each other, but they are not going to be mothering each other. It would be a weird party if everyone was monitoring everyone's behavior. How many students at KU do not belong to a fraternity or sorority yet manage to party pretty good? How many people do not even attend KU yet party hearty?

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• Posted by irishswearingen on March 23, 2009 at 10:29 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

We don't need oversight and regulations. People just need to use good judgment and make intelligent decisions. The vast majority of us drink responsibly and don't need nor want a group monitoring our weekend drinking. Please don't suggest nannying all of us just because a very small minority can't show some restraint from excesses.

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• Posted by Mike on March 23, 2009 at 1:21 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Why is it that no one under 21 can go into a bar, even if they don't order a drink, yet kids underage are allowed to sleep in Fraternities where alcohol is not only allowed, but openly used in parties? Open containers thoughout living quarters and do the police ever raid these Frat houses/parties to see who is underage drinking?

Laws need to be changed! If anyone under 21 is living in a Frat or Sorority, then they should be, by law, dry. Bars are!

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 23, 2009 at 9:42 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

A young man died! OH! But, that's not of worry! Go to Gordie.org and look at the Memorial Wall there....Jason is listed along with hundreds others!

www.gordie.org

We still don't know for a fact that this wasn't part of hazing. He was a new "pledge".

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 23, 2009 at 9:44 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

http://www.gordie.org/Education/Memorial-Wall/Memorial-Wall-Entries.aspx

There's the Memorial Wall. Put your cursor over them and you will see MANY of them involve fraternities.

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 23, 2009 at 9:52 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Mike writes: "We don't need oversight and regulations. People just need to use good judgment and make intelligent decisions. The vast majority of us drink responsibly and don't need nor want a group monitoring our weekend drinking. Please don't suggest nannying all of us just because a very small minority can't show some restraint from excesses."

As a college professor, I am always humored when students suggest that the solution to everything is "responsibility." I agree, but in my 20+ years of teaching, I find that a majority of students don't take responsibility for anything. A student misses a quiz or fails to turn in an assignment, and it's everyone else's fault, except of course the student's.

University administrations and fraternities have an obligation to create a safe environment for its students and members. When they don't, they need to be held accountable. Four SAE's have died across the country in the last two years. In each case, the universities have pointed the finger at the fraternity and the fraternity has pointed the finger at the individual. The four young men who have died in SAE houses accepted the ultimate responsibility: death. Their "brothers," the so-called "true gentlemen," not only refused to accept any responsibility, they participated in blaming the young men who died. In two cases, it has been determined that the deaths were a result of alcohol-related hazing. In light of this pattern, it is completely reasonable to suspect that the same may have happened at KU.

So forgive me if I don't accept the self-serving tripe that fraternities don't need more "nannying." They need as much as it takes to stop the senseless deaths and bring those who contributed in any way, either through direct involvement or refusal to speak up, to justice. It's obvious that fraternities can't police themselves. When they learn to, then they won't need "nannying" any longer.

At UT where an SAE pledge died, one of his pledge brothers told police that they had been told that the two most important things were "not to talk about pledgeship" and "not to die." The SAE fraternity has no interest in truth or keeping its members safe, but it has every interest in self-preservation. And other fraternities are more than willing to circle the wagons to protect SAE because they'd expect the same if someone died in one of their houses.

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• Posted by ridemponies on March 24, 2009 at 11:30 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

DenverDad,

Did you read any of the reports? I'm pretty sure no fraternity hazes by taking their pledges to get margaritas. Quit trying to stir up controversy. This had absolutely nothing to do with hazing.

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• Posted by kuballa23 on March 24, 2009 at 11:39 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Also DenverDad, many of those tragedies listed were not involved in fraternities. From what I saw, there were just as many "college parties/grad parties/train accidents". This is not just a fraternity problem, it occurs within and outside the walls of fraternities. No one at the fraternity is blaming the kid, as far as I know, its just a tragedy that should have been avoided by the presence of responsible adults/sober college students. I think it is closed-minded of you, and all, to specifically blame fraternities.

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• Posted by kuballa23 on March 24, 2009 at 11:46 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Witnesses have said that Jason was back at the frat drinking, and heavily at that. Why? Was he doing a "Man Challenge"? First one to puke looses. Why did they put him to bed, not once, but twice, exactly what they supposedly had been trained against, and then no one checked on him until 2:30pm!

It was a dangerous environment. Hind sight is 20-20. If we don't learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them.

Why do fraternities feel they have to have alcohol? I think in recent events, parents will start pulling their kids out of these "sleeping bars". Yes, it's not only fraternities that have this, but all over. Why don't the fraternities take a LEADERSHIP role in this and show they look out for their "brothers" by making them dry?

Jason was a new "pledge" and you can't tell me that he was the only one drinking that Saturday night and that there was no sort of hazing going on at all. The truth of that weekend will come out, one way or another.

I suspect that someone slipped him a "mickey" and he went off the deep end. It will be interesting to see what the autopsy report says.

I hope police raid these fraternities during their parties and see how many are underage and drinking. And if caught, they receive the full impact of the law.

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 24, 2009 at 1:57 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

KUBALLA23 You state, "just a tragedy that should have been avoided by the presence of responsible adults/sober college students"

That is exactly ONE of the problems! No responsible adult was there that night, they are college students. But the college calls them "adults" and defends their viewpoint that parents don't have rights unless given to them by the student.

Also, there are no responsible adults in the fraternity! They are all college students monitoring themselves. Their president lives in K.C.!

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 24, 2009 at 2:20 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Frat's claim to be responsible, and 'brothers', and that hazing is a thing of the past. We all know this is not true. Their attempts to protect their way of life end up costing lives. SO CHANGE YOUR WAY OF LIFE!

True brotherhood is not about drinking, drugging, and treating women like crap. True brotherhood is not about life long childish behavior. (Get any two frat brothers in a bar 20 years later if you don't know what I'm talking about!) If you want to show the world that you are truely responsible, and want nothing more than for your brothers to succeed, go dry, Plain and simple. No more renting Annex houses to protect your frat, because "the parties aren't going on in the frats". Anyone that has attended one of these Annex houses knows that you are all full of crap. Self protection isn't always self preservation!

I know Jason chose to drink. I know that you don't want babysitters. I know that you think that you need alcohol to be accepted in this type of social community. But the worst thing that I know, is that this WILL happen again! Unless......

You change your ways! Going dry will not lower your numbers. Going dry will not cause you to lose members that drink. Going dry will do nothing but improve upon this lifestyle which you, and only you at the moment, hold in such reverance. There were many reasons that Jason died. Wouldn't any of you brothers have liked to be the ONE reason that he was still alive? True brotherhood is about protection, not destruction. So protect yourselves, protect your future brothers, and go dry. There is no other way to regain the true meaning of fraternity.

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• Posted by 11cuz on March 24, 2009 at 3:45 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

As a parent who received a call in the middle of the night with a daughter almost dead from alcohol poisoning, I can honestly say you are all wrong that any of them are responsible adults. Getting that phone call changed our lives forever. . .we will never be the same. We see college kids as who they truly are young, inexperienced, naive, and quite often irresponsible. They are away from home for the first time and extremely eager to fit in and often make life altering decisions. My daughter had never drank, was not a risk taker, and cetainly never did things just to fit in. It was actually the same fraternity as Jason, at a different campus that gave her the alcohol. And at the party she was at they laugh at her, walked over her, and actually proved that they do do understand just how dangerous a passed out college student is. We will stop a kid from running in the street, but we let a liquid poison kill young people with so much promise in their future. If these kids are considered adults, why is there an R.A. on their floor, and why do we feed them threee meals a day. They can not rent a car until they are 25 because these car rental places are smart they know that this age group is prone to act irresponsibly, and they do not want to take that risk. And that is a car---a piece of depreciating metal! As parents we give these universities our best investment-- our children, we both need to do everything we can to protect and educate these kids. For all of you adults that do not think this is so wrong. . .keep in mind that if you provide my underage young adult with alcohol at your house and they left and killed someone you are responsible and you will be held accountable.
And lastly, I think out all the opinions I have read, the thought that saddens me the most is that someone lost their son. . .can we truly take that into consideration and change the culture on these college campuses.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 24, 2009 at 3:55 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

kuballa23: You state; "I think it is closed-minded of you, and all (sic), to specifically blame fraternities."

What a load of self-serving, tunnel-visioned nonsense.

Jason Wren DIED in a fraternity, just a few feet from his "brothers." Jason Wren literally drank himself to death while his "brothers" watched and did nothing, when in fact, if anybody present at the time had cared to, they could have saved Jason's life.

In light of these obvious facts, it's terribly naive for you to assume the fraternity should be held blameless. Fraternities used to stand for something other than tolerance for alcohol and other forms of self-abuse. A very long time ago, fraternity membership used to involve something called "character," a trait that has obviously been since bred out of fraternal society.

Fraternities are currently synonymous with all kinds of debauchery whether or not you choose to acknowledge it, kuballa23. And the ill-repute has grown to include various forms of murder.

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• Posted by FloridaUncle on March 24, 2009 at 4:02 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Here’s the problem... nobody can tell who is too drunk to put to bed, and who needs a 911 call. Binge drinking in college is a huge problem. Some people are saying, “maybe Jason had a problem”, but my gosh, with everyone doing this, who can tell who has a problem? Fraternities are a huge part of this drinking problem simply because they ARE a safe haven for drinking galore, no matter what your age, gender, etc. I went to college, any of you who went to college, or are in college now, you know the truth. Those of you who won’t speak up, or are speaking against “nannying”, it’s only because you still want to party. A lot of us have been there, done exactly what Jason did, and got lucky. Plan and simple, lucky. It’s not that we were oh-so responsible or could “handle it”, we were just as stupid and ended up skating by for some unknown reason. I know that over 1,000 people would not have shown up at my funeral, but they did at Jason’s. That’s the only reason I can even guess “why him?”. HIS message is getting out. I’m sick that his “brother’s” put him to bed not once, but twice. All of you will live with that for the rest of your lives. The fraternity spokes person said that the “men” of the house are educated on the dangers of alcohol and that excessive drinking is against the laws of the house, etc. What is on paper and what is in action are two completely different things. IF excessive drinking was not common behavior the “brothers” would have been scared to death to see Jason in such a state and would have called 911. Not put him to bed TWICE and left him for dead. Nobody even checked on him until 2:30 the next day. And you all don’t need “nannying”? Are you kidding me? Jason got you all “in trouble”, and maybe some of you are mad about that. Now the spotlight is on you. Well guess what, this spotlight may just save your life. NOW is the time for change.

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• Posted by HOUSTON on March 24, 2009 at 4:06 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

It really makes me sad that instead of focusing on Jason's life, people keep focusing on one specific group of people/person to blame for his death. Even at his memorial service at SAE, his family did not say one word about Jason--all they talked about was who to blame, why (they feel) greek life is horrible, etc. Can we maybe all agree that numerous people are to blame? His friends in high school shouldn't have drank with him. His parents should have acted when they knew he was drinking in high school (and I've been hearing they went out drinking with Jason one night while they were visiting him here?). The university should let families know when their kids are being kicked out of dorms for alcohol related issues. Jason shouldn't have drank so much that night. And yes, his brothers (not his "brothers") should have kept a closer eye on him that night. Putting all the blame on SAE isn't right and assuming (since there are NO official reports) there were drinking games or hazing going on isn't fair either. Sure, SAE deserves some blame, but so does everyone else. However, suggesting to send "baby sitters" to watch over people in fraternities isn't the answer. 18 years old is the legal age of adulthood. Sure, maybe that's too young, but it's not like kids decided that should be the legal age, adults did. So, if we're going to send "baby sitters" to watch over these legal adults, then maybe we should send "baby sitters" to houses/apartments/other private off campus living areas. House parties and fraternity parties are the same. You can go to any house party you want and drink as much as you want and people under 21 can live with people over 21 in houses. We better send "baby sitters" over there, too. Stop putting all the blame on the men of SAE. Stop suggesting greek life needs "baby sitters" to watch over them. If the greek community needs "baby sitters", so does every other college student. Everyone take part of the blame, move on past this blame game, and start focusing on remembering Jason's life.

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• Posted by kustudent on March 24, 2009 at 5:10 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

oh and p.s.- The second time he was put to bed, I bet he was put back because he came out of bed wanting to party more and/or drink more. Who knows if that was the case, but I'm betting against that he came out of bed needing help/asking to go to the hospital and his brothers responded "no". They may be fraternity men, and have unfortunately been given a negative stereotype because of that perfectly reasonable choice to live in a fraternity , but that doesn't mean they're careless/ stupid men.

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• Posted by kustudent on March 24, 2009 at 5:15 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Let's see...they let their pledge member drink excessively and they put him to bed, not once, but twice and you say they aren't carelsess stupid "men"? How do you know for sure that he wasn't ordered to drink more drinks? He was a new pledge after all!

You think it's ok to let under age kids live in fraternities and sororities and for them to hold parties where alcohol and under age people are is ok? Who is stupid now? Can't learn from other's lessons?

Think it is something of a concern if someone is so trashed that they want to party more and they are trashed? Think it's ok to put that person to bed AGAIN? Think that's ok still? I'll let the readers draw their own conclusions about you.

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 24, 2009 at 5:28 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Wonderful letter, Melanie.

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• Posted by sjones86 on March 24, 2009 at 6:02 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

To the KU student---you have no idea how valuable a human life is, and we you lose someone you brought into this world you will discover a pain that is truly unbearable. When Jason came out the second time of course he could not ask for help---he was too intoxicated---but trust me somebody could of seen he was in serious trouble. That is why you need babysitters because no one at that party was adult enough to be responsible. If you want to be an adult and drink like that ---then act like an adult and get help when you know the consequences. No grown adult would watch a human being be in that state and not get help.

And 18 might be an adult, but the drinking age is 21, so you are technically not adult enough to drink.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 24, 2009 at 6:33 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

DD: I am very sorry for the loss of your son, the pain and grief is incomprehensible. In observation, it appeared from many comments and photos from Jason's facebook WALL that alcohol was not an uncommon theme and an issue with "experimentation" in HS, and continued at KU. Historically there were some serious alcohol related violations acquired by your son in his dormitory that resulted in his expulsion. Many college students obtain fake IDs to purchase alcohol as well as to access the bars to drink and unfortunately this seems to be more of the norm than not, and NOT exclusive to college students, fraternity/sorority environments. There is no guarantee that no matter whatever living arrangement you assisted your son in securing that he would not have used his resources to continue to obtain alcohol if desired....whether in a fraternity or in his own apartment, or back in his own home. It doesn't sound like the supervision or lack there of was the only issue but a lack of appropriate judgment on the part of many, including the user. Feeling invincible,living on the edge, and risk taking is not uncommon with this age group. Assigning blame onto others with accusations based on assumptions may feel more palatable in your grief to accept, but does not permit the perception of holding Jason responsible for his own actions. Unfortunately one's BAC (blood alcohol concentration) CAN CONTINUE TO RISE TO DEATH LEVELS AFTER ONE HAS GONE TO SLEEP, and can exhibit only symptoms of the intoxication and still appear to function....not necessarily passed out on a floor to signal a critical situation to those around, which may be an explanation why some don't stop long before they "should". "Holding one's liquor" does not guarantee that there won't be detrimental consequences as the BAC level continues to rise even after consumption has ceased. Relating to the supervision aspect, high schoolers who obtain alcohol and binge drink presumably do live in supervised homes with parents/adults as their guardians and "role models"and this supervision does not deter the most determined... so to think that the "supervision" of dorms or fraternities or even bars will make a difference to the young person so determined to binge drink is really sadly an illusion created to justify the loss of this precious life. Lessons of SOCIAL and PERSONAL responsibility begin before we send our kids out to preschool and they continue throughout our/their lives and the choices made sometimes bear irreversible consequences. Ultimately with free will and choice there is a personal responsibility that cannot be ignored. Promoting education related to the dangers of alcohol and substance abuse can save lives and intervention must begin early, but even with these programs it ultimately comes down to the choices made by the individuals.

With much respect to you and your family during this difficult time.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 24, 2009 at 6:45 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

KU Student, you are right about one thing, that Jason's life should be celebrated and remembered, but so out in left field when you believe as a college student that you don't need to be watched when it comes to parties and so on. Do you pay your college? I can gurantee the answer is no. I believe that once a college student if FULLY independent from their parents then and only then should you decide whom you trust to watch your back. Jason's parents did not deserve that phone call, but he fell into the blind leading the blind. The "brothers" didn't check on him until 2:30 because they were probably all smashed themselves!!! What happened to someone taking everyones keys and being the outlook for the ones that have had to much to drink? When you were in your parents care your back was wathced fully and when you were sick you were taken care of. Then the parents put their trust in the school, their policies, and the supposed "friends" and "brothers" that come into their lives, but it looks like no one there stands on their policies. Would you want your parent to get a phone call? You need to wake up!

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• Posted by Angelson on March 24, 2009 at 6:56 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

To the diamond girl. Please tell me you have been socially and personally responsible all your life because I really want to write a book about how truly amazing you are. If everybody was so responsible and always did the right thing we would all have straight A's, we would not have the all these finacially meltdowns, we would not have any divorces, and our rosecolored glasses would fit perfectly. We all do the best job we can raising our kids and then we hope and pray they make the right choices or have friends around them that will protect them and help them on their journey. I hope you are not judging anyone on their parenting, because by the grace of God all children prove us wrong and let us down---they are human. If I served Jason liquor at my house I would be liable---but not on a college campus--you protect your own quite well.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 24, 2009 at 7:08 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

St.Louismom: Judgments are not being made nor were they implied. You appear to be reading my comments defensively and not how they are intended. The point is before placing blame on others recognize what your own participation is and based on your personal choices made, there in lies personal responsibility.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 24, 2009 at 7:22 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

That is a wonderful consolation to a parent who has just buried their son. Jason did not choose to die that night. He simple drank more that he should surrounded by people who could of saved him. If you take the keys away from someone you are saving a life, if you see that someone has had to much to drink you stop him or perhaps check on him. You know this is not all Jason's fault. . .if you are a bartendar you cut people off. It is easy to give an opinion, yet walk in a parents shoes before you feel the need to give a lecture on responsibility. We are all here to help each other out. . .not watch a person die.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 24, 2009 at 7:30 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

First, I've devoted my career to helping "at risk youth." Unfortunately, our institutions for high learning are also putting our youth at risk. Another passion of mine is the neurophysiology of the brain. I've heard the word "adult" thrown around a lot in these postings.Research indicates that the human brain hasn't fully developed until the age of 25, yes 25. Until then, you're primarily working from the part of your brain (Limbic system) that is running on emotion, living in the moment and impulsivity.You're saying that you don't need monitoring, supervision and that people should just be responsible with drinking. ADD alcohol to that and you have potentially and in this case a DEADLY combination. You're asking for a drunk adolescent to supervise other drunk adolescents. (And, I'd be willing to bet everything I own and ever will own that Jason wasn't drinking alone.)

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• Posted by HRTherapist on March 24, 2009 at 7:39 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

This issue is pervasive in our society. My children didn't go to college, yet many of their friends did. So yes, they attended frat parties. In Greeley (UNC), a few years back(probably still the case) each house had their own "designated type of alcohol" that was special to them. When a new member came in it was the expectation that they drink an entire bottle of that particular alcohol. Once that was accomplished every member signed it and the member kept as a "way to go dude, you're awesome!" Since this has happened my own two children have told me that they too almost died of alcohol poisoning at a frat party and they didn't even belong!!! My oldest son lost a very close friend at that same time to alcohol poisoning. So, you can place blame on the person who drank. But, did you know that if you have sex with your partner and either one of you is under the influence of alcohol (even a little bit) that it's considered rape and non-consentual? And, you can't vote, if you're under the influence you can't sign legal documents? WHY you ask?!! Because you're not thinking with your full capacity!! You're asking someone who is very impaired to monitor themselves?! It's not neurologically possible! So yes, you're truly adolescents, and thank God that Denver dad has the strength to help you save you from yourselves so that your mother, father, brother, sister, boyfriend or girlfriend doesn't have to go through this too and read your name on the memory wall. You know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Well for years, society has wanted to give you kids the benefit of being able to make good choices. And it's been the saem. But, obviously that track isn't working. And, since we're not insane. We know that change needs to happen, in order for change to happen. And, hopefully the frat brothers will come forward with the truth. Not only for Jason and his family. But, for yourselves; for you will not have a moments peace of heart when you look in the mirror or healing yourselves by holding on to this. I pray for you all.

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• Posted by HRTherapist on March 24, 2009 at 7:39 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

So lets see. Should we make the age of adulthood 21? Or how about 25 or 30? Or how about we assign a babysitter for every person who goes into a house party to make sure they dont drink in a college town. Its ridiculous. No matter how much you hate 18 IS THE AGE OF ADULTHOOD and no matter what the drinking age is people underage will want to drink. No ifs ands or buts. If people really wanted to make a difference they should make alcohol education classes mandatory in schools. Kind of like sex-ed classes that arent abstinence based cause we all know those have failed, but actually learning how to drink responsibly and know the repercussions of drinking too much. Everybody should watch this 60 Minutes report about the drinking age, they have some really good ideas.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA-91_...

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• Posted by COJayhawkCHI on March 24, 2009 at 8:21 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

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• Posted by COJayhawkCHI on March 24, 2009 at 8:25 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I think nationwide education is a great start!

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• Posted by HRTherapist on March 24, 2009 at 8:33 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I didn't say we're too adult for babysitters. I simply said that if you're going to send babysitters to fraternities/sororities, then send them to houses and apartments where college students live too because they party just as hard and frequently as greeks do and if greeks are going to be generalized as careless than every college student that has gone to parties/hosts parties deserves to be named careless as well.

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• Posted by kustudent on March 24, 2009 at 8:50 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I completely agree. At the age of 18 your allowed to vote and go to war defending your country. At 18 you are old enough to make your own decisions in life no matter how bad they are for you.

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• Posted by COJayhawkCHI on March 24, 2009 at 8:57 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

that utube is outdated, you can't pull it up anymore, so is your opinion. IF you say 18 is an adult then act like an adult. When you pay your own tuition--let's just see if you think this reckless partying is okay. If you think what we are doing is working ask a parent who is trying to race morally responsible children. . .we have to quit making excuses for this behavior.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 24, 2009 at 9 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Assuming that one is old enough to make their own decisions is the rationale for allowing reckless behavior to happen in fraternity houses. It seems to be empirically disproven to me. I like the earlier suggestion of a minimum age limit to enter a Greek house if it's not a dry house.

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• Posted by Hendrix321 on March 24, 2009 at 9:14 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

KUstudent; You trivialize Jason Wren's death. You don't understand that the people you're trying to debate know, and feel deeply, the loss of this young man. NOBODY CARES that you think you're an adult. You're obviously not. When your peers fall through the cracks with the frequency that they do, there is obviously a problem. But you don't get it. No matter. We're adults, and we're working hard to understand and address the problem in a constructive manner. Just let us discuss this without your adolescent noise.

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• Posted by FloridaUncle on March 24, 2009 at 9:20 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Youtube video works fine. Watch it. It makes excellent points on why the drinking age should be lowered to 18.

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• Posted by COJayhawkCHI on March 24, 2009 at 9:36 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I'm sorry if it seems that I'm just putting out adolescent noise but in no way did I start talking about how I'm an adult, I can do whatever I want, etc. I realize that the main message of my post was misinterpreted so what I was trying to get at is the unfairness that people are saying fraternities/sororities are a horrible environment and that we need baby sitters, but they are ignoring the fact that other college, and underaged, students party just as hard as greeks so they deserve monitors to watch their behavior as well. I, like everyone else, am just trying to get my opinion out there. I'm sorry you don't agree with it and I'm sorry it seemed that I was trying to start an argument about adulthood but I really wasn't trying to. I understand that people my age don't act the same way as people older than us and I'm just saying that since we are considered legally as adults at 18, we must start learning to take responsibility for ourselves and how to live away from our parents. Again I'm sorry that my main message about unfairness between greek groups/other students on campus got mixed up in my post.

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• Posted by kustudent on March 24, 2009 at 9:42 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

You can tell so clearly by the comments those of you that are students. . .you have so much to learn. And keep in mind these decisions you are free to make no matter how bad they are is a sign that you still have so much to learn about life. You can have sex at 18 but that doesn't not make you ready to be or capable of being a good father. The reason why our country is so messed up is everybody thinks they can do what they want. . .and not think of the consequences for themselves or anyone around them. Why do you think everyone gets divorce? Because they are thinking of themselves and no one else. You will fit in the American way just fine.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 24, 2009 at 9:42 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

And to those who urge us to "celebrate Jason's life"

Is that what you think his parents should do right now? Is that your advice, two weeks after his completely unwarranted, unnecessary, unexpected and inexcusable death? You want them to hold that little comfort bag and be satisfied with it? OK, let's put the shoe on YOUR foot.

YOU put a member of your family, maybe your little sister or brother into a coffin and bury them next Monday, and within fourteen days I'll tell you how grateful you should be that they lived as long as they did. How would that feel?

Platitudes have their place, but this is certainly not anywhere close. So stow the ingratiating remarks - you have no idea what you're talking about.

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• Posted by FloridaUncle on March 24, 2009 at 9:45 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Most good people do think of consequences when they make their decisions in life. Their has to be some age where children become adults and learn and make mistakes for themselves without the help from their parents and college is the place to do it in America no matter how much you disagree with that fact. And the whole argument about paying tuition doesnt hold up. I know many students who pay their own tuition and still go out at party and join fraternities/sororities. Just because you party at the age of 18 doesnt mean your are irresponsible. 18 is the age of adulthood and it should also be the age when adults are allowed to drink.

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• Posted by COJayhawkCHI on March 24, 2009 at 10:07 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

The law is the law, whether you agree or not. 21 is the legal age when our country says you can drink. If you don't like it move to Ireland and drink all you want. Just because you have a birthday at 18 doesn't mean your an adult, it is how you lead your life. All you have to do is walk into a college party and know---you are not adults. . .beer bongs, shots, binge drinking are all stupid thing you do to prove you are adults. . .then you truly become an adult and realize how stupid you were.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 24, 2009 at 10:41 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

COJayhawkCHI- Unfortunately, our society does give mixed messages to our kids. Yes, you are old enough to serve your country in war and vote. But, unfortunately the need to feel good in the moment, and a feeling of invincibility takes over logic and sense of long term consequences at your age. And no, that's not a slam. It is what it is. My guess is that the students don't want to experience another loss either. Be honest with yourselves about how many of you have been hammered and thought it was funny. And your automatic response is to brag about how much you drank or what you did. Yea, I've been young myself. I also know your need is to save face in the face of confrontation. Girls, think about the risk that you pose to yourself by being intoxicated. Students this issue is FAR REACHING and has HUGE ramifications for a variety of reasons. When a tragedy like this happens it makes you take a look at your own mortality. And I know, you can make every justification and excuse in the book as to why it won't ever be you. But yes, IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU!! But, I have heard a couple of suggestions from students that we can begin to start to make a difference. 1. nationwide education on the dangers of drinking 2. a dry house unless everyone is 21. I make it a KU challenge to come up with ideas and strategies to make ALL of our college students safe. Because you're right! It's pervasive. But, unfortunately, drinking large quantities of alcohol has become a right of passage to get into or be accepted into fraternities or with friends in general. W e as adults are passionate about this because we care about you! KU- do you accept the challenge to make all students safe? And how are you going to make that happen?

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• Posted by HRTherapist on March 24, 2009 at 10:44 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Alcoholism is a killer disease. It's estimated that 1 out of 10 are alcoholics, and that only 1 out of 35 alcoholics who start drinking will be able to eventually stop drinking. The other 34 sooner or later will have a tragic end to their life.

So one solution is to just not drink. That's the choice Mark DeMoss has made. "One important reason for choosing not to drink at all, I see now, is my son's life. When he begins to face his decisions about alcohol, and he will, in the way that others' choices have become my life's touchstones, maybe my choice can be one of his." Chapter 21, "Here's to Not Drinking at All," in DeMoss's The Little Red Book of Wisdom. www.LittleRedBookofWisdom.com>

But what about those who have already started drinking, and in Jason's memory want to "just put it down." Can they if the person trying to put it down is part of the 1 out of 10?

So putting it down in Jason's memory is one thing. Keeping it down is another. For those who want help putting it down and keeping it down, free help can be found at http://www.aa.org/

For those who have an underage or other problem drinker in their life, there is also free help available at http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/

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• Posted by JohnSWren on March 24, 2009 at 10:48 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

There's an excellent educational program: www.Every15Minutes.com which is an extensive, interactive production that can be invited to participate in local high schools and I recommend it highly to be included in the HS curriculum. Binge drinking and substance abuse is pervasive and educational programs need to be updated and expanded throughout the school system. The Gordie Foundation has extensive material on the dangers of BINGE drinking, hazing etc. that also needs to be addressed in the schools. As parents we have to promote open communication no topic off limits, because our windows of opportunity prior to them leaving home may seem big, but after HS drastically narrows and the time to make an impact is as young as grammar school (anti-smoking and drinking), age appropriate of course. If a problem is revealed or suspected it is our responsibility to address it and not blow things off that all kids get high, or my kid really does have nice friends, or my kid's an honor student...etc. It is helpful to know the parents of your kids friends so you can dialog, support each other and be on the same page of what is acceptable and what problems might be cropping up. This communication was a little awkward to coordinate at first but in the long run was productive in addressing inappropriate or unacceptable and risky behaviors. If a support network cannot be built in amongst this group of parents and risky behavior continues it really is critical to seek professional help with intervention and support. Parents can seek out professionals to assist and help provide them with useful tools to empower parents to parent as effectively as they can. Communication with schools and teachers can help detect problems if a teen is struggling, grades slipping, too social, not social/isolated etc. professional counselors/therapists are great resources and should be accessed for support if needed, keep your eyes and ears open and be involved....with that said, we can only do the best we can do. As a parent of a 20 yr. male college student every day I hope that my son continues to make good decisions for himself and learn from the great number of mistakes he has made, but I know ultimately he is responsible for his own choices, and I can only hope that the choices that are made are responsible because sometimes there are NO DO OVERS/SECOND CHANCES..and as we know some irresponsible choices can bring everlasting heartbreak. He knows this intellectually but emotionally the gravity of this isn't always grasped. Drinking, the legal drug is so lethal yet accepted almost as a rite of passage,culturally it has been seen as a way to lower inhibitions, which teens like making them feel "less responsible" for risky behaviors, it is fairly easily accessed and has been so glorified and synonymous in our society with "having a good time" that unless education is started much younger, like anti-smoking campaigns then it will remain pervasive in this want to feel good society.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 24, 2009 at 10:52 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

COJayhawk- That video was very good. I am 20 and go to UNC and found it very interesting. I think you put this video on here to make the point of lowering the drinking age. But that video did the exact opposite for me. I doubt you have ever lost anyone close to you from drinking, or a car accident (which in a lot of cases are hand in hand). The reason i say this is because if you had, you would realize that by lowering the drinking age you are almost encouraging drunk driving. Now 18, 19 and 20 year olds will be able to go out to bars or clubs and drink and then drive home. In that video it said that when lowering the drinking age in the 1970's drunk driving accidents increased by 13%. So far this year (2009) there have been 2,951 deaths from drunk drivers. 13% of 2,951 is 384 people. That means if the statistics in your video are correct, that by lowering the drinking age drunk driving accidents increase by 13% then 384 more people should be dead this year alone. For me, this is enough lives to make me see that the drinking age should NOT be lowered. This is the website i used to find the amount of drunk driving deaths so far this year...
http://www.alcoholalert.com/deathclock.html

Now when it comes to making fraternity's dry, I completly agree, unless there is a rule made that everyone living in the house is 21.

I used to drink and go to those frat parties. After hearing that Jason died, I was totally turned off by drinking. It is fun for the first couple times, then it is all the same. You are putting your life in danger every time you drink. College kids need to realize this. And college kids are NOT adults. I have met a couple that are, but do adults go to parties and drink till they get so drunk they pass out? And if they do, do they do this every weekend? no. if you think you are an adult act like one, GROW UP! You DON'T need alcohol to have fun.

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• Posted by UNCkaylee on March 24, 2009 at 11:27 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Sorry wrong link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA-91_...

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• Posted by COJayhawkCHI on March 25, 2009 at 12:12 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I'm a 22 year old student at KU. I'm an active member of my sorority and the Greek community here on campus. I'm also a recovering alcoholic and, by the grace of God, celebrated a year of sobriety on March 2, 2009.

Based on my personal experience, the Greek community here at KU continues to be among my biggest sources of SUPPORT in my sobriety. I'm an avid supporter, especially because of their role in confronting me about my drinking problem and supporting me in the recovery process. Execs from my sorority, IFC and Panhellenic Council confronted me regarding my drinking and made themselves, as well as a list of different services, widely available to me when I felt as though I was completely alone in my situation. I “secretly” drank myself into complete oblivion so many times alone in that sorority house that it's only by the grace of God, and continued support from my friends in the Greek community, that I'm alive today.

What happened to Jason is truly one of the worst possible tragedies, but I feel placing the blame within the KU Greek system is something I don’t agree with (based on my personal experience). They really helped me feel academically and socially safe during the first several months of my sobriety. In addition, the FRATERNITY men at KU are some of the most talented, motivated, successful, and well-rounded young men I've ever met (and I have pretty high standards now). I'm proud to be a member of the Greek community at KU and believe that their support and involvement plays a key role in keeping me happy and sober one day at a time. I love being a Jayhawk.

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• Posted by mtnjayhawk on March 24, 2009 at 11:29 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

MtnJayhawk: Thank you for sharing your honest, heart felt experience. Congratulations on your sobriety and your courage and accomplishment to make this change in your life. If not too personal, I was curious how old you were when you first started drinking? I know that some begin once they get away from home and have the freedoms afforded at college, but I also believe that there are many that enter the colleges with a lot of this baggage already on board and have been exposed to binge drinking at an earlier age. I do think that only allowing 21 yos to live in frat houses that permit alcohol is appropriate, but I think this is a false sense of security because if one is determined to obtain alcohol and make this their mission, it will be accomplished. Dorms have RAs in place but this does not stop students from engaging in this behavior, same is true for off campus housing. There is peer pressure to drink and people will engage for all different reasons.....many previously mentioned in these posts, but ultimately it will fall on "your" shoulders as to whether or not you choose to participate or have the courage to stand up for yourself and do what feels right for you. I applaud your courage and message to others and hope that you project your story and experience loudly and proudly.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 24, 2009 at 11:46 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

UNCKaylee ~ While I respect your opinion I do disagree with your opinion. I have lost people I know from drunk driving and know many people who have suffered from alcohol poisoning. Like Gordie's parents said if the drinking age was 18 people would be more inclined to take their friends to the hospital without fear of repercussion from the police or fraternity/sorority. And I dont think that lowering the drinking age would encourage drunk driving. I've learned from school from 8th grade and every year after that drunk driving is very bad and dangerous and people from the age of 14 and up know that. I think the best idea in that video was the "license to drink" just like getting your license to drive. You would have to take classes and if you violate your license you get it taken away. Like the analogy in the video: you dont hand the keys to a car to a 16 year old and let them figure it out by themselves. I've been drinking with my parents since I was 17 and they taught me responsibility when it came to drinking. A lot more deaths come from other aspects of alcohol other than driving. And really...if your old enough to serve your country in Iraq or Afghanistan and when they come home they are not allowed to have a beer? It is truly maddening. But thank you for watching the video...I think everybody needs to watch and join the debate!

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=chaostoro&view=videos&start=100

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• Posted by COJayhawkCHI on March 25, 2009 at 12:09 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I also do not think the idea of limiting only people who are over 21 to live in a fraternity/sorority is a good idea. If the house is dry then the men/women will go elsewhere to drink and if the house is wet with only 21 year old and up living their the underage members will go to the house and get drunk their instead. And according to this logic people who are over the age of 21 and under the age of 21 should live together. I know of many houses in Lawrence where underage kids live with 21 year olds...should we make that illegal too? The Greek system should not be held to higher standards than the entire KU community.

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• Posted by COJayhawkCHI on March 25, 2009 at 12:23 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

So, let me make sure I have this correct? You think that the age of drinking should be lowered to 18 because if that happens then you'd be more likely to call the police/ambulance to help your friend who is dying from alcohol poisoning because then YOU wouldn't get into trouble??!!! There are SO many flaws in that thought process that its mind-boggling. . First, it's saying that you're too self-centered to possibly get a slap on the wrist for an MIC rather than help a dying friend. Second, you're saying that you DO drink to excess, which is NOT adult and responsible, AND you want a way out so that you don't get into trouble for your choices. The professor is right on when he says that you want to be treated as adults, but when you make these choices and it doesn't turn out the way that you want, then, it's everyone else's fault, but yours. WAKE UP people!!! Now is the time to quit thinking of only yourself and step up and help out your "friends." But, it also sounds like your definition of a friend and mine are two entirely different things. To me, a friend never leaves when times get tough. They get into the ditch with them and help!! But, somehow a majority (not all)of this generation is full of themselves and only into their self-gratification and self-fulfillment. And, it doesn't matter who you step on along the way. Many employers (mine included) have even had to resort to training their managers on how to supervise this generation because of these stated issues!!! Something has gone terribly wrong! And, I still haven't heard any of the students state what they're personally going to do to help this situation, and yes, help ALL college students. But, the Greek community is a great place to start. After all, you're supposed to be leaders of the campus, correct? I not only ask KU to take this challenge, but ALL colleges and universities. You are the ones that are in the midst of everything and know what will work. And, its been my experience that young people can come up with awesome solutions should they choose to look inward rather than place blame on others.

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• Posted by HRTherapist on March 25, 2009 at 7:50 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Florida Uncle, I did lose my Only son at the age of 12 from diffrent reason. I agree that Jason's family needs time to realize what has truly happened and to someohow come to terms that life is not fair. I just want people on here to stop looking for blame at the hands of Jason, because I know right now they need to hear the good stories of Jason. What a beautiful young man he was/is, how smart he was and gentle, loving and kind. Yes his death is a complete tradgey and eventually someone will have to answer for it, whether here or at God's gate, but they will answer. I believe all colleges need to take a good look and stop allowing these kids to do things that on the outside of the walls of the college is illegal. Know my heart bleeds for what Jason's family has to go through, but lets hear some great things that Jason did that can make maybe just a little smile can come to his parents face. God bless.

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• Posted by Angelson on March 25, 2009 at 10:36 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

There really are no acceptable excuses in this tragedy, it is not acceptable Jason drank excessive quantities of alcohol that ended his life, and it is unfortunate that a significant history of alcohol consumption has been acknowledged with no one previously making an intervention prior to his death, there is no excuse for the ignorance not indifference of his peers to know to when to intervene and "assess" the gravity of the situation that unfolded the night Jason passed. Collectively grave mistakes were made, opportunities were missed and the lives of the survivors are changed forever. This has been a powerful lesson in Earth school for all of the lives Jason touched and impacted on many levels...there are no "accidents or coincidences" everything happens for a reason.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 25, 2009 at 11:43 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I feel a little upset about how Greek Life for some reason is being pushed to the center of this. Heres a lesson: Not all fraternities resemble an Animal House. I did not join a fraternity at KU to live in a "sleeping bar". I wanted to join a close group of people. Joining a house at KU has been the best deciscion I have ever made. I have never seen one of my brothers come close to going to the hospital. Several girls drank too much over the few years I have been here and somebody has always gotten help and even took several to the ER. I love it how when last year a kid that lived in Oliver Hall, died of ODing on Alcohol and Drugs, was not found for TWO DAYS and the media maybe covered it twice. The RA's did not realize that someone was dead until the smell lurked the whole wing. Thats great adult supervison right there. So lets not blame the Greek system, dorms, the dad, Jason's brothers, KU, our generation etc... Can we just learn from this? Theirs no reason to point fingers anymore, instead lets learn from this tragedy. First change needs to come on an individual level. I did not know Jason but his death has effected me. I've realized that binge drinking isnt worth it. Its dangerous and has no purpose. After I personally reflected on what I needed to change, I started to think about what the community needs to do. Today I was handed a pamphlet about the Gordie Foundation and learned alot about the consequenses of binge drinking and signs of alcohol poisoning. I now have this plastic card I can keep in my wallet that shows signs of alcohol poisoning and what to do. I think this is a great start for the community. But just ignore this because im not 21, therefore not an adult ( HR Therapist, stlouismom), so my opinion is invalid. Maybe when I turn 21, I will finally grow up to be a big boy and hopefully my brain will be filled with common sense and personal responsibility that I obviously seem to not have right now.

Wren Family- I am so sorry for your loss. I think about this alot and your family will continue to be in my prayers.

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• Posted by WestCoastHawk on March 26, 2009 at 2:45 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I don't understand the resistance to making a fraternity dry. Is it they think that they will lose membership? If so, isn't that a sad statement? Do fraternities have to be an open bar to survive? I don't think so. I would think they would thrive if they make a code among their bothers that they will not drink. Parents would flock to support them then!

I support that all "wet" fraternities must not house anyone under 21. The time has come, if not now, when? How many more must die before changes are made? Or maybe a lawsuit...that's what Gordie's family had to do.

Here's their settlement...."

"In the settlement, Chi Psi said it will prohibit alcohol from being served at any pledge events. Violators will be subject to discipline which may include expulsion. There will be an alumni presence at all formal activities; by 2012, all chapters are to have an adult live-in house director.

In addition, the fraternity said it will use Gordie's story to educate pledges and brothers about the dangers of peer pressure, hazing and alcohol poisoning. "

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 25, 2009 at 2:15 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

The argument of being "adult" when it comes to drinking is stupid. No matter what age you are, or how long you've been drinking, alcohol impairs your judgement! When your judgement is already questionable, due to peer pressure, social status, or whatever, alcohol does nothing but decrease your chances of making the proper decision!

Alot of these posts by students seem to miss the point. We all know that this problem is not only happening at frats. The dorms have their problems, as do off campus housing. The answer to these problems is not lowering the drinking age, but to enforce laws which are in place, but with harsher penalties! If someone underage recieves a ticket for consumption or possession, they are issued a fine or community service, possibly suspension of drivers liscense. Why not jail time? You are all adults right? The higher the BAC (Blood Alcohol Content) the longer the sentence! Give me one good reason why not!

The main reason that frats are targeted is because of their own code of brotherhood. They look after eachother. They protect eachother. They make sure that their brothers are always taken care of. Well, after they haze them, humiliate them, make sure that they are up to par. Who would want this kind of brother? The biggest reason that they are afraid to change their ways, is because all of them went through the same initiation. So if they had to suffer through, why shouldn't the next guy? Because it could kill them!

I don't know if what happened to Jason was hazing or not. But you'd have to be a fool to believe that hazing doesn't still happen. Why wouldn't these men, brothers, future leaders of the world want to change their ways to a more positive way of life? Why can't you haze someone by making them work at a soup kitchen for a week, shopping for the disabled, visiting the elderly, or better yet working with kids? Institue values and, as a previous poster said, character! Be the type of brothers that anyone would be proud to claim! To you frat members, who get defensive, that point fingers by saying that it doesn't just happen here, who are dismissive about changing your ways, look at yourselves and ask just one question, why?

Why not change? Why not be the true leaders of your campuses by showing everyone that alcohol is not the reason you are in school. Alcohol does not define you. Let your brotherhood and community service define whom you are! We all claim to want to change the world, you gentelmen, have an opportunity to do just that. Good luck! I know you can do it!

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• Posted by 11cuz on March 25, 2009 at 6:15 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

11cuz: I LOVE your ideas about pledging with a sense of community responsibility built into it!! What great ideas, there is NO place for hazing anywhere in our society, it is barbaric, dangerous and humiliating and you've offered a really constructive piece. Perhaps forwarding your ideas to a group like the Gordie Foundation who is make strides with attempts towards getting their message out in the mainstream on campuses could be a helpful addendum. Many of these Greek communities needs to readjust to life in the present and revisit why they were ever established in the first place. Hazing did not appear to be the cause of Jason Wren's death and perpetuating this idea by some in the posts really does not appear to be based on actual fact..it only deflects from some of the other responsibilities of accountability being ignored. There is not enough police power to function realistically raiding every college party to uncover under-aged drinkers, jail time for consumption seems inappropriate to subject a young person to but community service and something related to the enhancement of alcohol abuse and education would be ideal...with visits to a rehab. center or neuro unit in the hospital and learn first hand about the impact and dangers of irresponsible, excessive alcohol consumption,and its impact not only them but others (family the community etc).

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 25, 2009 at 7:07 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Thank you for your kind words. I didn't begin drinking alcoholically until the summer before my sophomore year in college. I drank socially starting at age 17 and showed signs of alcoholic drinking at age 19 and was drinking all day, every day by the time I turned 21. I grew up with a privileged life, amazing parents and in an overall healthy atmosphere.

My drinking had nothing to do with “college” or “greek” life. It had to do with the way it made me FEEL and allowed me to temporarily avoid the responsibilities associated with growing up. I got sober 3 months after turning 21 because I was on the verge of losing everything and everyone I cared about. I knew the alcohol -fueled college environment wasn’t going to change, so I changed my behavior instead.

While I respect the opinions being shared on this site, I personally believe that alcohol use on college campuses is a pervasive issue that is not going to change anytime soon, if ever. Unfortunately, I doubt any of the fraternity houses (except for probably SAE?) are REALLY going to go “dry” in response to this tragedy. These ideas/suggestions about cops raiding fraternity houses, rules, regulations, control, etc… are only going to make students rebel against the issue more. Also, most fraternity men move out of the fraternity house by age 21/22 so restricting the age to live-in would be pointless..most 21/22 year-olds are in their third or fourth year of college already.

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• Posted by mtnjayhawk on March 25, 2009 at 9:31 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

mtnjayhawk: How effective are the RAs in monitoring the use of alcohol and illegal drugs in the dorms? I feel strongly that mandatory EDUCATION and information will help to create and increase another level of awareness and personal responsibility...and as in your situation or other under aged binge/social drinkers if determined to acquire alcohol and desired, it will be achieved, as seen in the dorm life...frat/sorority houses, off campus housing. It really comes down to personal responsibility, unfortunately the consequences of choices we make for ourselves don't always have favorable outcomes. Do you still socialize in the college party scene? I would think this must be challenging for you with all you know, have learned and created the necessary changes to promote a healthier lifestyle. Have you personally ever reached out to touch one person at a time to effect change in someone else's life? This "help" is really a powerful gift you can offer a peer if you feel you identify with the bad or dangerous choices you see being made. A quiet angel on campus?? or one that shouts from the roof tops, either way you can really make a difference by empowering your peers with your strength and serve as a role model for change. You are smart, you are strong, you are young and you can make a GINORMOUS DIFFERENCE!!! xo

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 25, 2009 at 10:06 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

After reading all the posts on this site, I am amazed how people think the best way to avoid blame is to "do nothing." Oh to look back in life and say " It wasn't my fault because I did nothing!" I think it is 60 Minutes that does the special, "What Would You Do?" They stage break-ins to cars and houses and people look the other way or walk by so they don't have to be involved. They had a recent one of the guy putting (a placebo) something in a girl's drink while she was in the restroom. Some people spoke up but others walked away or even cheered the guy on. We live in a world that doesn't want to get involved. They don't want to take away from their own lives by concerning themselves with others' lives. Little do people realize the impact they have, the POWER they have when they speak up. Sometimes someone just needs to know someone has their back. Some of the people we see in the most trouble are usually screaming for someone to care. At what point does someone step up and say "I should have made the difference."? I had the pleasure and misfortune of meeting one of Jason's friends recently.Her statement: "I've seen Jason drink more than what he probably had that night and he was okay, so something else must have happened." I can honestly say I hold this person just as responsible for Jason's death as she holds the frat brothers. Life is precious. When we hold a baby or see a baby, we can only think of good things to come. Whether it is your own baby, that of family, or that of friends, I am certain that no one looks at a baby and thinks, "When harm comes to you, I will look the other way." No Jason wasn't a baby, but he was someone's baby. Anyone who knew him and enjoyed his presence should have respected the fact that he was someone's baby.

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• Posted by COTami on March 25, 2009 at 10:19 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I did not personally know Jason. I went to school with his cousin. Regardless of whether or not I know him, I know one thing is certain, if it were my daughter, I would expect someone to stand up and do what's right. I have raised her with rules and limitations and I know the day will come that she will want to expermiment or possibly rebel. I would hope that someone counts her important enough to hold her accountable for her actions. I hope that someone has the balls to stand up 1 against many and say that the situation is wrong. Deal with the consequences another day and take pride in knowing you alone made the difference and saved someone by not looking the other way. Whether or not SAE wants to outwardly claim fault, I am certain that inside the partiers are beating hearts. They are each bearing their own cross now. I'm sure that the thoughts of "What if?" are constant. As much as many of you want to say this kind of partying happens and will continue to happen, are you prepared to bear the load and guilt of doing nothing? Yes, life is precious and I believe every death happens for a reason. Now, SAE can learn from this experience, feel their own convictions, and hopefully support an educational experience that brings good for the future. Honor Jason: DO SOMETHING!

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• Posted by COTami on March 25, 2009 at 10:20 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

To the westcoast hawk, I never said your opininon does not matter, but if you live at KU, you know just like every other campus there is a ridculous amount of irresponsible drinking. And one day when you get the phone call at 2:50 in the morning that your daughter is almost dead from drinking to much, with no history of drinking at all---you might rethink your feeble attempt at sarcasm. You might think beyond the moment and find this incredible need to change a practice so wrong. I don't care if you think your adult or not---this is a huge problem, and it must be addressed. It really is not about you and how you feel you are an adult. It's about a loss of life, and how we change it. Why do you think the started Mothers against drunk driver? They saw a need to change a practice that was wrong.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 26, 2009 at 8:29 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

If Jay Wren is Denver Dad, you are barking up the wrong tree. Listen to what mtnjayhawk is saying. If Jayson were my son, I would be angry also. But you are blaming "society". And for the next many years, even if fraternities and schools passed every law and hired one on one babysitters for every student, kids will continue to drink illegally and Jayson would still be gone. He started his issues long before he got to KU. Only the family knows for sure the extent to which Jason was alcoholic, but they do know. And something "could" have been done to help him. Notice I said "could", not should. Sometimes parents do not see what is right in front of them. Or they see it and ignore it. I have a feeling, though, that this family knew that there was a problem with Jason long before KU. I believe the blaming of everyone else (especially the fraternity) but themselves is indicative of that. Other kids will die this way no matter what we do because they are great kids who have million dollar "manipulative, alcoholic" personalities and a huge drinking problem with parents who do not properly handle things at home before the kid goes off to college. If I were Jay, I would attempt to JOIN WITH the greeks to help be a spokesman to educate young folks about the dangers of drinking like many (mtnjayhawk) in AA do. If I were Jay, I would join the greeks and tell my entire story to every house in the country instead of accusing and badgering and demanding that houses go dry... which will not happen for a variety of reasons Jay does not understand, but has to do with liability and plantiff's lawyers. Be honest about why this happened, stop blaming everyone in society and JOIN WITH instead of tearing down the 150+ year old greek system. I am sure the greeks would welcome your assistance.

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• Posted by forku on March 26, 2009 at 10:37 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

stlouismom Thank God your daughter is alive. Now, get over it, move on and positively help others towards underage drinking awareness. Start something like MADD. Join with Jay as a team to speak to greek houses.

You can relive that night only so many times before it drives you nuts. Been there.

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• Posted by forku on March 26, 2009 at 10:50 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

WestcoastHawk: Thank you for your thoughtful, positive post. You appear to be wiser than your "young" age and I applaud you for speaking up so honestly about your personal experience and own changes you've made in your life, and adding to the dialog relatively and currently. You have taken many steps forward of your peers and with your attitude you too can make a difference, and positive changes in the lives of those you perceive that may go off course and see struggling around you. Even one person at a time. These are challenging times socially, economically and personally your positive attitude can effect change not only in your own life but when you shine your spotlight on others. You are at the heartbeat of what is going on in the college community and seem to have an awareness that as parents some of us wait to see this level of responsibility in our own. It's not all doom and gloom and acceptance and acknowledgment of the role of personal responsibility is guiding you to move forward in effective ways. The Gordie Foundation information has valuable tools, share it when you have the opportunity. I also believe that with more education, more positive dialog and positive attitudes like yours you will add positive energy to your college environment and continue to attract positive experiences because this is what you sound to be generating. Keep speaking up loudly and often, YOU WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!! THANK YOU.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 26, 2009 at 10:54 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

COTAMI You obviously are not part of the greek system. SAE and most other houses do wonderful things for others and have terrific alcohol awareness and trainng programs that every man goes through. But when a young man wants to drink or MUST drink, he finds a way, doesnt he? Even if he is underage. There was a fake ID on Jayson, yes? He got that long before he came to the SAE house, where he lived for 11 days. I would guess he got it long ago in Colorado. Just a guess, though. SAE has been in existance for 153 years. Longer than any of us and many states in our union. Could it be that is because they must be doing something right, or maybe its just dumb luck?.

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• Posted by forku on March 26, 2009 at 11 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

WestCoastHawk: You are a smart, young man. Personal reflection in this matter is the first step for all of us. Keep up the good work and continue to spread the word. I'm glad that you have found good and positive friendships in your fraternity. That's such a sad story about the person who OD'd in the dorm. People are crying out for help. Something like this opens our eyes to the crys even more. Your prayers are appreciated.
COTami: You are so right. Everybody is somebody's baby. We all need to, must, take care of each other. That's ALL we were put on this planet to do. Believe it or not, that's it.
Irishs: You say it would be "weird" if everyone was acting "motherly" at a party... my gosh, I can not imagine a better party. Where everyone loves you and cares about you and accepts you for who you are. Not weird at all.
Cuz11: The ideas for "hazing" are impressive. To take such a negative experience and turn it into such a postivie, life affirming experience... my gosh. This is the way to go. Haven't they done studies on kids who give back to their communities and how they are less likeley to turn to drugs and alcohol? I think they have... I'll look into it.
COJayhawkCHI: Your idea for making alcohol education mandatory is absolutley right on. Sadly enough, it probably needs to start in Junior High.
In my opinion, community service and alcohol/drug education much go hand in hand. Keep them busy helping others, keep them educated.

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• Posted by HOUSTON on March 26, 2009 at 11:01 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

to the forku student, when you say get over it you prove how immature and self-centered you truly are. Do you know it was the same fraternity that provided my daughter the alcolhol as well? And she did not have a history of drinking---probably just wanted to fit in like so many other college students. And for the record I am over it and she is doing incredible! I have contacted Jay to see if I can help. But most college students are just like you---they know everything and do not listen to experience wisdom. That is why you are in school to learn!!! And just cause a fraternity has been in existence for 150 years doesn't mean everything they do is right. Drugs, alcohol have been in existence for a long time as well, but they ruin peoples lives and kill lots of young people every year.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 26, 2009 at 11:22 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I "didn't have a history of drinking" either.

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• Posted by mtnjayhawk on March 26, 2009 at 11:29 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

PLEASE READ!

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/mar/17/lawsuit-over-gordie-baileys-death-cu-frat-settled/?partner=RSS

Looks like lawsuits ARE necessary to bring about change.

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 26, 2009 at 12:16 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

DD: Those pledges in the Gordie Bailey incident were barbarically hazed and humiliated, and these behaviors have no place in this society and hopefully the terms of the settlement agreement will shed much needed light on this subject of hazing, pledging and social and PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...and effect new attitudes towards self respect and alcohol abuse, social and binge drinking. This was tragic and the settlement terms seems like a springboard to set an example for not only the Greek community but other people that engage in hazing behavior. The Gordie Foundation is very well funded and has extensive nationwide contacts and resources that continue to expand, hopefully their message can bring about the necessary changes that this awareness and education can and will create.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 26, 2009 at 12:30 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Great article. In order to truly honor Jason's memory, I hope we can leave weather he drank before he went to college, or had a fake id, and his role in this out of the debate. The bottom line is what happened! He died in the SEA fraternity house, is a minor and was given alcohol, and died while everyone else partied. All the other details are not going to help solve the problem. This happens every year on so many campuses and we need to find a resolution to change it. Education about alcohol is not working, so how about changing the law and mandating some serious consequences. If a passenger dies in your car when you have been drinking pass the legal limit, you are liable and will be charged. What about if someone gets hurt on your property--they sue you. And what about Jason----so young, so much ahead of him---what are we going to prevent from happening to someone else.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 26, 2009 at 12:39 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

stlouismom I wish I was a student! You are so full of emotion and yourself that you read, but do not understand. I am a grandad who lost a grandaughter like this a few years ago. It was never publicized and never will be. But I am an advocate for educating young folks in the dangers of drinking. And I never blamed anyone, even though I could have. I am also a product of the greek system and happen to believe in it. So, again I say, get over it, stop the pitty party and do something for others to make things better instead of complaning and talking down to others.

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• Posted by forku on March 26, 2009 at 1:23 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

"Bailey and other pledges were “forced to drink large amounts of alcohol,” and the defendants then left a “dangerously intoxicated” Bailey on a couch with a bucket. The lawsuit alleges the defendants chose not to call paramedics until the next day, after Bailey had died."

I read the article. Not even close to the same situation and we all know that. If something like this had happened--a hazing or something like that, I would say string them all up...but that is not what happened. It is clear and obvious that Jayson did himself in.

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• Posted by forku on March 26, 2009 at 1:42 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

STLOUISMOM: YOU ARE MISINFORMED, but your perspective is very revealing. Your solutions may have some merit though they are limited and very short sighted if you think that only through litigation will change occur without the reinforcement of promoting awareness through education and teaching about social and personal responsibility related to the consequences of one's actions. Some positive changes can be effected with legal consequences, and specifically addressing Greek life affiliated with universities that establishes more "accountability" but it will not occur only as a result of attempting to create a police state. Unrealistic and myopic in addressing the larger picture. Binge drinking is widespread and a social epidemic and not limited to the Greek community. Young people binge drink for many reasons and their lack of awareness can create unintentionally dangerous, high risk situations for themselves, especially included in this high risk category could be kids who may have genetic predispositions towards alcoholism and binging can get more frequent and out of control when faced with life changing situations or new environments, dealing with new social situations. As a licensed clinical practitioner...I am also commenting on links to family history and alcoholism in general, not knowing or addressing Jason's family history but it would be an issue of concern/exploration if I were interviewing a teen binge drinker in for treatment. Familial attitudes towards alcohol can impact the teen's view and their perception of being able to "handle their drinking"....which of course we know is a false sense of reality. The Greek "presence" on college campuses (including ones housed off campus) is huge and if leadership is truly one of their stated missions it would be a great way to mainstream the Gordie Foundation material to create awareness,accountability and provide critical education. It is interesting that knowing the issues and problems presented on campuses that universities don't insist on a partnership with the Greek Communities (corporate offices) to incorporate these type materials if they want the "privilege" to remain affiliated with the university or expel them as being potentially dangerous with no measurable safeguards (contracts) built into their membership participation. It could be a step towards enforcing this educational material to be addressed when guidelines/contracts are being signed. Respectfully I acknowledge the pain and suffering the loss one's child brings and how it's impact reverberates in the community.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 26, 2009 at 1:43 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Dear Forku, You know the fraternities have changed right? Just as the democratic party and the republican party. It's not like it used to be.

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 26, 2009 at 1:44 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

When law suits are filed, stuff comes out. Stuff you dont want to come out. But sue if you must. Its expensive too--especially if it takes 6 or 7 years like I know about. We were angry too. It will pass...But it will never end. Focus on doing good for others. Not demonizing others.

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• Posted by forku on March 26, 2009 at 1:49 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I believe kids have changed more than fraternities.

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• Posted by forku on March 26, 2009 at 1:52 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

It's not about demonizing ANYONE! WATCH THIS!

http://features.kansan.com/videos/2009/mar/24/dangers-alcohol-go-unnoticed-studen/

Sadly, with nothing changing, this will only get worse. I'm saying Fraternities could take a LEADERSHIP role in young men's lives. Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Will it continue, no doubt. Will it help lessen the numbers, that's the goal! To not make any changes is asking for it to happen again. But of course, there's people who will always say, "It won't happen to me or my family."

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 26, 2009 at 2:12 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

forku, or is it fork u? either way, this isn't about demonizing others, it's about seeing a problem and fixing it. If you are truely a grandfather, and not a student, you'd understand this.

you'd understand that frat's have changed, that society has changed, and you'd be disgusted with what has been going on! you're no grandfather. at least not one i'd claim.

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• Posted by 11cuz on March 26, 2009 at 2:19 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

StLouisMom: "You might think beyond the moment and find this incredible need to change a practice so wrong. I don't care if you think your adult or not---this is a huge problem, and it must be addressed" I am addresing the problem, im changing my personal life. Im educating myself on the symptoms of alcohol poisoning so I can help other people when theyve gone overboard. What else do I need to do? Do I need to put on a plastic badge and police my fraternity brothers who are underage and drinking. S**t, I'll even write out fake tickets for them. Their some feeble sarcasm for you. Get off your high horse.

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• Posted by WestCoastHawk on March 26, 2009 at 2:21 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I am in total agreement with DenverDad. We still do not know the details of what happened to our daughter. The university put us up in a hotel, and gave us more tuition back then we paid---honestly do you think they would do that if it was just a college freshman drinking recklessly. And on the subject of Jason's history of drinking, the majority of kids drink in high school and college and they cover it up from their parents. . .if KU would of told Jason's Dad the reason why he was kicked out of the dorm. . .maybe we would not be having this conversation.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 27, 2009 at 7:45 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Kansas City Star columnist this morning agrees KU policy needs to be changed. http://www.kansascity.com/277/story/1108786.html

Is anyone in an official capacity at the University paying any attention to this?

Uncle John

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• Posted by JohnSWren on March 27, 2009 at 9:18 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

JAY, I DO know what I am talking about, I have cried almost daily for your loss. My son,the one who drove you to the airport out of Lawrence. He and the other SAE members knew Jason for a short time, but really liked your son. No matter what you CHOOSE TO BELIEVE.. I know he also could be Jason....this is NOT about forced drinking or challenges, but patterns. HE ALSO ABUSES ALCOHOL. WE have free will and choice, AND THAT FREE WILL IS STRONG!!! He too thinks he is invincible, can handle "life", knows his "limits" and what all of the words have told me is enough is enough,this is not NEW. Denial is powerful, and MY"Jason", is right in front of me, a good student, gifted athlete, LOVED by his peers, a heart of gold with a "controlled,social drinking problem". Even with DDs on call at SAE, and safe rides and friends to party with at school or home. WOULDA, SHOULDA,COULDA. Yes my son is legally an adult, yes my son drank and still drinks "with ALL nice kids" as I've heard you say.I want you to know your lessons, your words won't be in vain, because I will address this issue as aggressively as I can. My eyes are no longer widely shut. My son is also a NEW pledge, a month longer than Jason. I KNOW that he is responsible for his own behavior and the choices he makes, just like Jason....Honestly ask his friends who have known him longest. It's NOT about his peers at SAE, it is NOT about hazing and pledging. RUSSIAN ROULETTE,PLAYED ALONE. Seriously, how does one have good judgment and make appropriate decisions when under the influence and with companions "anywhere" USA who are doing the same to varying degrees? It is an epidemic, laws can be changed, houses can be dry,this "may help" but is a false sense of security. Teaching my son he is responsible for his own actions and the consequences. I SEE HIS SOCIAL DRINKING AS A PROBLEM, SAE IS NOT THE PROBLEM, HE HAS AN APT. HE CAN GO TO AND DRINK IF HE CHOOSES TO, HE IS"RESOURCEFUL". IT IS ABOUT FREE WILL AND CHOICE. I AM NOT IGNORANT TO SOME OF HIS POOR CHOICES HE'S MADE IN HOW HE IS NOT RESPECTING HIS BODY, HIS LIFE. He TRULY LOVES the guys at SAE,(HE TOO HAS ALWAYS HAD AMAZING FRIENDS, THIS IS NO DIFFERENT). EVERYONE has been effected deeply by Jason's loss, but they are not responsible for his passing. I believe my son felt deep compassion for you, NOT GUILT. He too has the magical thinking of this age "this cannot happen to me, I can handle MYSELF". It is about IGNORANCE NOT INDIFFERENCE. There are lessons to be learned on many levels for all from this tragedy. I do not drink but I feel like I am looking in a mirror, and the reflection is very powerful. Go back and read my posts with NEW EYES. I truly hope you can forgive yourself and your son, I would hope I could do the same if I were in your shoes...but I pray I can make a difference. This tragedy has not fallen on deaf ears anywhere.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 27, 2009 at 1:56 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

DD: Education and information is always critical to create awareness...familial attitudes and histories also effect and greatly impact the behaviors and attitudes of society's children. There is a great HS program EVERY15MINUTES.COM that can be invited into high schools related to the dangers of binge drinking and alcoholism, it is highly recommended. Education also needs to be stepped up and aggressively expanded in our primary, middle and upper school systems with age appropriate materials. Having one in college who's been through that program and one currently in HS it can be invaluable information and foundation to what may begin or is taught in homes??? and also prior to arriving on the college scene. The message of personal responsibility and acknowledging responsibility related to the consequences of one's behavior can not be ignored, misplaced and assign only blame. Coupled with this college campuses also need programs in place or have resources to address this social epidemic more aggressively/emphatically...many of these institutions have the materials and programs but not sure how they get the message out. Free will and choice is still something exercised in our country and all of the laws existing and ones that will be changed can impact only so far if one is determined to engage in this "social activity", they will and there will be personal consequences, some irreversible. The Greek system is a perfect avenue to help promote leadership and effect attitude change but it needs to be addressed on the corporate level and the partnerships sought with universities could be the place change can begin but to think or assert this issue is limited to the Greek community really sells short the message you are trying to promote.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 26, 2009 at 2:35 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Anyone who says there is no problem, things are just fine like they are is either 1) out of contact with reality or 2) part of the problem, in my opinion.

This was in today's Denver Post: http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_11997662

I heard a former University of Colorado coach give a talk at the Denver Lions Club about leaving coaching: "Sports is no longer the positive influence on young peoples lives it once was. I've read I am Charlotte Simmons (by Tom Wolfe) and it paints an accurate picture of what is happening on college campuses today."

Wolfe is well-known for his careful research, and his portrait of college life in general, big time basketball, and fraternities is damning.

The SAEs and the University of Kansas can either use Jason's tragic death to face up to the problem and start working towards positive change, or the community of outraged parents and responsible students across the country should draw a line in the sand and confront the evil that big-time college athletics, pro sports, and fraternities have become. If not now, when?

If Kansas makes the NCAA basketball finals as expected, I say we all go with protest signs, unless the SAEs and the University of Kansas make a full, immediate, unconditional apology with a plan for positive change. At Jason's funeral and until now, we've heard only the deafening sound of their silence.

Uncle John

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• Posted by JohnSWren on March 26, 2009 at 2:42 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

It is interesting that one who is expelled from a university dormitory for acquiring repeated violations related to alcohol abuse ends up residing in a fraternity house, and one that is not dry. There were many opportunities and missed opportunities, if you want to make a change promote a partnership with the fraternity. The post above from FORKU: 10:37AM offers positive constructive information and solution that can make a huge impact to a broad audience....beginning at the corporate level!!! Attacking the fraternity without acknowledging any personal responsibilities for this tragedy is why your message appears to be falling on deaf ears, though I seriously doubt that is accurate. You can make a difference it is how you go about it that will give you the most powerful impact and desired result, not alienate those you are trying to reach, there is an accountability being ignored in both camps. Be realistic in your goals.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 26, 2009 at 3:06 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

DiamongirlSD,

I am not misinformed. I witnessed the alcohol problem first hand last semester when my daughter went away to college. I was on that campus three weekends in a row---and trust me I was the only sober person that I knew of. We educated our daughter about alcohol, she had never been involved with alcohol before, and the universtiy covered up what happened to her. 100 people laughed at her while she almost died. We brought her home, got her into counseling, and now she is doing great. Funny how consequences change human behavior.

We have been education teenagers for years on smoking, and there are still millions of teenagers that continue to do that. The only reason drunk driving went down is because there are consequences. This kids on these campuses are under an extreme amount of peer pressure to fit in, and it is very difficult to say to when everone else is encouraging them.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 26, 2009 at 3:47 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

ForKu,

Do they have a sensitivity class you can take a KU? Do you realize that Jason's family just buried there son. When you have successfully raised a child then maybe you can say what you would do if you were Jason's Dad. Thank God Jason has a Dad that wants to take his loss and change it for the better.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 26, 2009 at 3:59 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Stlouismom: It sounds like you saved your daughter's life with the aggressive intervention you made by removing her from an unsafe environment and assisting to empower her with the counseling she desperately needed and received..she is very fortunate and sounds like her hard life lessons learned will impact her in a way no educational program could possible effect. Whatever wake up call was needed, it was heard and intervention was addressed, so sadly many aren't as fortunate to have a second chance, but it sounds like she is taking full advantage of this gift afforded her. Thank you for sharing this positive outcome.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 26, 2009 at 4:16 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

According to a September 2008 report by the NIAAA, 83 percent of college students drink alcohol, and 41 percent of students surveyed reported they drank five or more drinks on at least one occasion within a two-week period. Ostrander said about half the clients at his Lawrence center were college students, and he said young people with alcoholism often did not seek help because they saw their drinking habits — no matter how excessive — as hardly unusual compared with those of other people in their age group. Alcohol is a sedative-hypnotic drug, so it targets the pleasure center of the brain, inducing calmness and reducing anxiety, Ostrander said. For college students, many of whom are away from home for the first time and struggling to make new friends and establish an identity, Ostrander said the desire to have this alcohol-induced high had an even greater appeal. David Ambler, emeritus vice chancellor of student affairs, said college students are also drawn to alcohol because of the role it plays in university culture. With slogans such as “Win or lose, we still booze” and a social scene saturated with kegs, jungle juice and beer pong, Ambler said college students can perceive having a social life free of alcohol as difficult or uncool.

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• Posted by HRTherapist on March 26, 2009 at 4:49 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

JohnSWren:

Protest signs? seriously? If you want increased attention to be paid to this issue by KU staff and students, I PROMISE you that protesting during that time would probably be the most ineffective measure possible. Actually, I feel the ideas behind your whole approach are pretty off-course. TRY WORKING WITH THE GREEK COMMUNITY AND UNIVERSITY, INSTEAD OF AGAINST THEM!!!!

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• Posted by mtnjayhawk on March 26, 2009 at 5:35 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Also, I imagine you're going to respond with a comment that you've already tried or something along those lines. TRY HARDER and KEEP TRYING.

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• Posted by mtnjayhawk on March 26, 2009 at 5:46 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I can definitely see how a partnership with the Greek community can possibly make great strides in educating students about the dangers of alcohol. And that would be truly be wonderful for all involved. But, there's an obstacle in implenting this. A partnership is a "relationship" where both entities are forth coming with their intentions and their disclosures for the common good of both parties. I can't imagine being a parent whose son/daughter has died and not know the circumstances surrounding the tragedy. If the SAE brothers have any empathy at all (and I believe that you do!), PLEASE COME FORWARD SO THIS FAMILY KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED TO THEIR LOVED ONE! I can't imagine that this has been an easy time for you either. You call yourselves the "SAE men"; so please, be strong men of character, integrity and honor, and come forward. Let this family finally have some small amount of peace and closure. I'm sure that once you do, you too, will have some peace of mind. Character is doing the right thing, even when noone is watching.

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• Posted by HRTherapist on March 26, 2009 at 6:12 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

HR: Respectfully.....Is it possible you have heard the truth but choosing to ignore the information because it is unacceptable and easier to blame others without accepting the fact that the user was out of control as has been historically addressed at many junctures??? Think about it. No one said there were not other participants but to rely on the judgment of impaired companions to make good decisions was more about IGNORANCE not INDIFFERENCE.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 26, 2009 at 6:25 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

mtnjayhawk, working with the frats is a great idea. and i'm sure we would love to do that. however, they are not talking about this. they are too afraid of what the repercussions are going to be when they fess up to what actually happened.

i do agree that protesting at the final four isn't a great idea, Kansas has no chance at making it that far. :)

your attitude toward getting people to work with the frats is a great idea. i'm guessing that you are in a frat, or at least were in one. if you see my previous post regarding hazing, you will see that i think the frats can change not only their image, but college life in a whole. they need to be the community leaders that they claim to be, and start by going dry.

Animal House isn't what frats are supposed to be like. it's a movie. Put the frats back on a higher level again, and lets see how that effects our country. why not help these young men see that alcohol doesn't define you. I've realized that. but it took the loss of my cousin for me to figure that out. WHO DO YOU NEED TO LOSE TO BE AFFECTED?

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• Posted by 11cuz on March 26, 2009 at 6:50 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Have you tried communicating on a corporate, national level of SAE or in your own state about how to work together? It may be family emotions are too volatile at this time to create a working partnership and putting together a cohesive/informational program with the clear message you want to express similar to what the Bailey/Lanahan has offered in terms of speaking engagements may be an avenue to explore, it may be difficult while emotions are so vulnerable and raw, but you could also use this energy positively to effect change. You may never hear what you WANT to hear from SAE and may need to approach this in another way to make an impact with them, if you are thinking only hostile and litigious, then you are not looking for a "partnership" and this will be the longer road to engage in, but the family will evaluate what they know is right based on what they accept as truth.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 26, 2009 at 7:10 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Diamond Girl: There is nothing respectful about what my perception is of what you're saying. I'm not talking about history. I'm talking about what happened the night that Jason died! You have absolutely no idea what information has or has not been given to the family. So I take offense that you are indicating that the truth and story have been told, but the family is not willing to hear it because its not the story they want to hear. You're stating the family/friends will only accept what they want to hear, and I personally take offense to that. You're making assumptions to which you know nothing about. You're making assumptions that the family has been given answers, but just don't like them. NO!! That is not the case. So,until you know the circumstances to which you speak, it will best be received if you keep your assumptions to yourself. I believe that it is within a family's right to know what happened, not generally, but what EXACTLY happened to their loved one. Yes, there are emotions involved. A young man has died. All the family wants to know is the truth.

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• Posted by HRTherapist on March 26, 2009 at 8:06 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

HR: No offense intended but sometimes it helps to get out of our own way.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 26, 2009 at 8:20 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Yes, it does. So, please take heed to your own advice.

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• Posted by HRTherapist on March 26, 2009 at 9:28 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I wonder why the "fine young gentlemen" have been told not to talk with the press? If there is nothing to hide, then why not? The truth will set you free. The truth is only what the family wants. Seems to me, the guilty are the ones who don't want to talk.

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 26, 2009 at 11:46 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Oh, Dad...you really are blind to this. I hope and pray that you find peace for yourself and your family, and take on your share of responsibility in this tragic case. I now know why folks finally give up on chat sites. Too much emotion and not enough logical solutions. God Bless. Over and out.

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• Posted by forku on March 27, 2009 at 7:43 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

forku,

I will even pay for you to take the sensitivity class. The blame can not be on Jason alone. Sounds like you just want to blame one kid for all the ridiculous amount of excessive drinking and all the problems associated with this.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 27, 2009 at 8:10 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

DENAIL is a POWERFUL defense mechanism, and a MOVEMENT towards the last step of ACCEPTANCE. As this will undoubtedly anger you to hear this now, respectfully, and tragically KNOW many sign posts along this young man's path were ignored....as well as many critical missed opportunities. REALLY interview Jason's HS friends (18,19 yos) who LOVE him and also DRANK with him and who have "also" vowed to "put their glasses down in Jason's honor, memory", talk to his friends (also under-aged) who drank with him in "OLIVER HALL", LISTEN and HEAR what they say, read the wall, read the many heartfelt posts, here included, listen (remember) to what has been told to you historically by your son and others....HE WAS AN AWESOME YOUNG MAN on many levels, I HAVE BEEN TOLD, HE WAS TAKEN TOO SOON, BEFORE HE REALLY HAD THE CHANCE TO SHINE HIS BRIGHTEST LIGHT. There is a reason for this all of this, no accident no coincidences. Jay, congratulations on your 19th day of SOBRIETY, "putting your glass down for Jason and leaving it down", as noted on the Facebook Wall. This admission, your RIGHT action is a huge step in the right direction for you and your family and those who care about you. I suspect there is a familial, predisposition towards alcoholism which may contribute to one's strong denial....and a genetic component related to Jason's several years of drinking. I DO KNOW what I am speaking of. My heart aches for you and your family and perhaps you will find INNER CLARITY and PEACE in the depths of your soul in search for honesty and TRUTH, not the reason you may want to hear and place BLAME elsewhere...THIS WAS NOT A GORDIE BAILEY situation, you have missed what has been in front of you all along but chosen not to see. This site is VERY revealing about human behavior, and like ALWAYS attracts like. I wish you well in your journey.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 27, 2009 at 10:11 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I simply can't comprehend why its so difficult for everyone to understand the importance of knowing what happened to Jason the night that he died. Only until that happens can true education, change of policy and healing begin. And, its sad if people get off of chat sites because of the raw emotion that is emoted into the writings of the people who are mourning a young man's death. We really have turned into a callous society, if people can't empathize and sympathize with a grieving family who lost a loved one that was so tragically and unexpectedly taken from them. This isn't a clinical case study that we read about it in our clinical books. This is a "real time" and true life event of a family who are grieving the death of one of their own. Start showing some compassion and understanding of what this family is experiencing. And the absolute feeling of helplessness about not knowing what transpired the night that he died.

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• Posted by HRTherapist on March 27, 2009 at 12:14 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

EVAN not Ryan.

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 27, 2009 at 3:16 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

To the Diamondgirlsd,

I am truly deeply saddened by your remarks to Jay, and I really hope you realize how hurtful your words are. I do not know Jason's history nor do I care to. He was just like any other college freshman that I know, they are young think they are invincible, and really can not think beyond the moment. Why do young men drive to fast, drink too much, and do impulsive things? It is all of part of life's journey and how we do or do not learn the lessons. This is a lesson for all of us. Life is too precious to be critical of one's persons actions. All of us own the drinking problems on our college campuses. I have truly lived through this and you do not know what you are talking about. First of all, almost every person that walks on this earth is predisposed to alcoholism. All that means is somewhere in your genes someone has had a problem with alcohol. Since 1 in 10 people have a problem, all of us could have that gene. Secondly, I have two kids in college, and two younger teenagers, and they are surrounded by alcohol every single weekend. It takes more courage than we will ever know for our kids not to give into this peer pressure. My son who is a sophmore in college drank alot freshman year, now he is motivated to be successful and has matured and feels that was a stupid thing to do. Our daughter is a freshman never drank a day in her life and alomst died her first weekend in college at a fraternity party hosted by the SEA's. All of whom thought it was so funny that a dumb freshman couldn't handle her liquor. I have had my daughter tested, and there is no defining factor that makes you an alcoholic it is how alcohol affects your life. Some people are functional alcoholics, others it destroys their life and many around them. But not many people know at 19 that they have a drinking problem. We as parents do the best we can, but society, their friends, commercials all tell them how cool they will be if they drink. And finally, as parents it would be so great if we could try to feel Jay's pain instead of playing psychologist. What Jay should of or could of, or should do now is not ours to decide. He had been given the heaviest cross to carry for the rest of his life, and I think all of us owe him some compassion, not a lecture. I know how each decision our kids make, who their friends are, and how they feel about themselves is the key to them living a good life. But it is a journey, when you learn to walk, you fall many times before you get up. When they drive, we practice with them for a year before we let them drive alone. But when it comes to alcohol we let them loose and expect them to figure it out on their own with people pressuring them every night.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 28, 2009 at 11:24 a.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

For KU: PLEASE PASS YOUR REMOTE....THANK YOU!!! WISHING YOU ALL WELL...RIGHT ACTION BEGETS RIGHT ACTION.
"OVER AND OUT".

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• Posted by diamondgirlSD on March 28, 2009 at 10:33 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

Does this sound familiar? http://www.texasmonthly.com/2009-02-01/feature2.php

Think this is isolated too? Read carefully....it's not!

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• Posted by DenverDad on March 30, 2009 at 2:37 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

It hurts to read these comments knowing there is no way we could ever have Jason back.

It's quite ironic, don't you think, that the a mother of an SAE member is speaking out for her son. You speak of how your son makes his own decisions now, why speak for him when you have made it clear he can speak for himself?

Shame on you. What hateful words coming from a mothers mouth to another now mourning parent!

My heart goes out to the Wren Family.

[Father] forgive them, for they know not what they do. (Luke 23:34)

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• Posted by JoJayhawk08 on March 31, 2009 at 2:39 p.m.
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Letter: Response to student’s death should not be shifting of blame

I totally agree with JoJayhawk08---My heart goes out to the Wren family.

This article says in all. . . this woman is facing a felony charge for doing the same thing kids do on college campuses every weekend. Are laws are really messed up. Only we can change them. Mo. mom accused of giving alcohol to young teens

KANSAS CITY, Mo. – A mother and another woman face felony child-endangerment charges after a 14-year-old's birthday party that ended with two young teens being taken to a hospital. Karen Christine Downs, 43, of Kansas City, and Kelsee Guest, 25, are accused of providing liquor and beer to six 13- and 14-year-olds at a February birthday party for Downs' daughter. Two girls, one 13 and the other 14, passed out and were later taken to a hospital, according to court documents.

Downs allegedly offered $10 to whoever could chug a glass of vodka the fastest. Guest is accused of pouring the shots.

"We continue to work to educate teenagers and adults about the dangerous effects of teen drinking," Platte County prosecutor Eric Zahnd in a news release. "But understand this: It is a crime to give alcohol to somebody's child. And any adult who creates a substantial risk to the life, body, or health of a child can face felony charges."

Police responded to a complaint of a loud party at a home in northern Kansas City around 2 a.m. Feb. 22 and found the teenage girls, several of whom told investigators that they had been drinking heavily. One girl who was unconscious was taken to a hospital, where her blood content was later determined to be .218, more than twice the legal limit to operate a motor vehicle.

A second girl also was taken to the hospital because officers believed she had alcohol poisoning.

"This was a very serious and dangerous situation," Kansas City police Chief Jim Corwin said. "We are fortunate we are not standing here discussing a homicide."

Officers found between 60 and 70 empty beer bottles and several empty liquor bottles scattered throughout the home's basement.

another bottle of vodka.

One of the girls told police she had beer and nine or 10 shots of vodka, he said.

"I would like to think that the outrageous actions alleged in this case will be viewed by responsible adults as totally unacceptable," said Vicky Ward, coordinator of a community group that works to reduce teen drinking.

Downs was being held on $25,000 bond and Guest was being held on $20,000 bond. Both were cash-only.

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• Posted by stlouismom on March 31, 2009 at 10:36 p.m.
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