Thursday, April 29, 2010
The Kansan has recently published a number of letters and editorials on the topic of socialism. A theme runs through all the letters: socialism is about redistributing wealth. Whether socialism works is not my concern here. What socialism is about, at least here in the U.S., is.
Programs and policies such as welfare, food stamps and progressive taxes are labeled as socialist. Whether they are being attacked for sapping diligence, being un-American or favoring the state over the individual, or are being supported because they give people a chance or gives equal opportunity, the real reason for these policies is entirely overlooked.
Our progressive policies are about justice. In a society that is about respecting the rule of law, injury is compensated by those who caused the injury. Every citizen who could not go to college because their parents were paid too low wages has been injured. Every employee who adopted the idea that their company was their family, only to be fired and their job outsourced has been injured. Every worker who became too sick to work and lost their job because of the illness, has been injured. For these reasons, and many others, livelihoods have been ruined and children's potential quashed.
Our society and lifestyle is entirely based on the poor being abused, overworked and treated inhumanly. It may not have been direct, but our comfort derives from debasement of those unable to defend themselves because of past maltreatment or bad luck.
This is not an attack on capitalism. Rather, it is a frank description of the world in which we live. These policies are not products of socialism; they are products of America's commitment to justice. A sense of justice forces us to pay when we break something. Why does this not apply to people?
— Patrick Totaro is a senior from New York City.
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Comments
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Well well well Mr. Big City Britches, I don't know how they do it in "New York City" (go ahead, try to figure out why I put that in quotes). But here in Kansas we have a little something we like to call "not that many people." That means that Sean Hannity likes to yell in our direction. It also means that we don't eat salsa made in New York City. We eat salsa from Texas! So go ahead and write on Castro's facebook wall about your commie revolutions. We'll stick with our good salsa thank you very much. Oh, and one other thing--ever hear of freedom? Ya, we'll have that too, and we don't need the government to or the lamestream media telling us what to do. And we definitely don't need any east coast elites.
West side til we die.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
That's either the most awesome use of sarcasm ever... or just really, really sad.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
It is a problem with every generation, a young naive person discovers socialism and "fairness". They think that they are the first to discover the truth. The challenge is how many years must they learn before they realize that socialism is doomed to failure before they hurt someone.
I strongly suggest that you read about David Horowitz. His parents were communists, the fraternal twin of socialism, and he was raised a communist. He believed as his parents did until he turned 30. He used his mind to think about man, politics, and socialism. He came to the conclusion that socialism doesn't work and will not work. You have convinced yourself that being concerned with "social justice" is morally superior and so you can discount those horrible people who don't care. In many ways that is a form of bigotry. Talk to some people who don't believe like you do and listen to their arguments with an open mind and not a dismissive attitude. You might learn something before you hurt yourself.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Calvin, I strongly urge you to read Orson Scott Card's short story "God Plays Fair Once Too Often", if only so I can watch you explode in anger.
I'd chalk up this diatribe as yet another McCarthy-influence rant, but your attack in "social justice" strongly ruffles my feathers. I guess if Jesus had livied a little longer so that he could learn that "social justice" is morally inferior like you do. Before you attack me as closed minded, I grew up in Southern Indiana, who put the R in Republican. I've heard all their arguments. The simple fact is, socialism is highly unrealistic by itself, much like democracy. But an unfettered capitalism, much like unfittered Republicanism, results in a "lack of representation", a sentiment I recall a certain "Tea Party" trying to emulate. That's why we live in a democratic republic, and why our best fiscal policies are socialist capitalism.
I guess if you dislike fairness so much, you could just live in another country that isn't as "socialist". You could try 1940s Germany or India during the caste era. But don't try to rationalize cutting public service programs as "American" or "religious" or "maturely responsible", because it is none of those. It's propaganda fueled by short-sighted aristocrats who think they can manipulate people through emotion-fueled arguments based on greed and pride. I don't want to be part of an America like that and I don't think Thomas Jefferson did either.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
There it is, the reference to Nazi Germany the home of, wait for it, National SOCIALISM! Hitler was a socialist before he became a Nazi. His problems with socialism was that he was a proud German and not a world citizen. Your views have more in common with the man from Austria than you think. That is why people like yourself are so dangerous. You do dirty deeds in the interest of the greater good and feel satisified that you were right. Go back and read some of the transcripts of the Nuremburg trials. They talked the same as you especially the judges and doctors. Go down to the National Archives in KCMO and look at the exhibit of genocide in Germany and it's American roots. Read how they justified themselves. Read that it was for the good of all people, for the betterment of man, for real justice for all Germans. All despots say that they are doing it for the people and the future. That is why Pol Pot took his people out into the jungle and killed millions of them. The same is true of Stalin, Lenin, and Mao. They slaughtered millions, more than Hitler, and they did it on purpose for the good of the people. As for Orson Scott Card, I was reading his books before you were born or maybe you've heard of Benders Game. You have never seen unfettered capitalism in this country for over a century or unfettered republicanism. By the way, this is a representative republic and not a democratic republic. Our founding fathers thought of democracy as mob rule with better manners.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
There it is, the reference to a republic, as in the Peoples Republic of China or the Union of Soviet Socialists Republic, the home of, wait for it, COMMUNISM! Way to go Calvin! Our founding fathers were thinking only of themselves. The rich white guys in power. They cared not for women. They cared not for the black slaves. They cared not for the lower class. They cared not for the native peoples. It's always been about wealth and power and it will always be about wealth and power. Mother Teresa was a socialist. Jesus Christ was a socialist. You are such a Calvinist!
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Since the entire argument FOR socialism is based on feelings instead of facts, any attempt to have a discussion is mired by denial. Introduce a fact and face a rebuttal about how it makes the socialist feel.
They will not study history. They will not hear facts. The only hope is to be patient and wait for them to starve to death.
To a socialist/communist, a new human is a cost to the system. To a capitalist, a new human represents value. They will produce wealth and contribute to society. This vast difference explains why the totalitarians who run communist countries are responsible for so many deaths.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
ky 102 go forth and read some history. After all this is a college. Do this because I am so tired of explaining the same things over and over again. You should have learned this stuff in high school.
kyjayhawk, yep that was propaganda and the term neocon is anti-semetic and I will bet you've used that word. It comes from the 70s and referred to people who "believed in Zionism". So watch out for those death camps, they may have a job for you as a guard.
Did you forget the massacres in Spain during the 1930s? France? 50,000 people disappeared in the late 50s and early 60s during the Algerian uprising. Many from Algeria but some from the streets of France itself. Look up what Jean-Paul Satre had to say on the subject and check out the battle of Algiers.
I guess Stalin was right for you guys. He said that one death was a tragedy but a million deaths was a statistic. I remind you that socialism has killed nearly a 100 million people and you blow it off with "there was no genocide in England". That is why you people scare me. It also tells me where the beaurocrats came from to run the holocaust.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
The problem with socialism is that it DOES support the people. When nearly 50% of US citizens don't pay income tax and receive more in government service than they put in, what initiative do they have to be more self-reliant? So they can pay more in taxes? Statists have just now started to find out the problem with massive entitlement programs (Social Security, Medicare) is that they are basically legalized Ponzi Schemes. In order for the government to pay benefits to today's seniors, it must borrow on the back of today's workers (the 50% that pay taxes, that is). Of course, this has become a nightmare demographically. With seniors living longer and the birth rates in decline, we are subsidizing early retirement for seniors who could still be working but don't have to. Food stamps, Medicaid, Welfare, and other federal programs designed to help only the poorest of the poor have become a commonplace in many communities, letting half the nation rely heavily on government entitlements to get by while making the productive half of the nation pay for everything.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Real social justice is you helping out your neighbor. Millions of people already do it, volunteering their time and money to a worthy local or international cause (lawrence food bank and Haiti come to mind). Individuals will do far more to benefit their communities than Washington. Socialism will never work on the national scale because the planners will never be smart enough or have the time enough to deal with the individual needs of every citizen without bankrupting the very programs they intend to create. Someone down the line will always be stuck with the empty bag. You help your community and be the example as so many already have.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
The most cogent sentence ever uttered by a supporter of theft was, "Socialism doesn't kill people. People kill people." I suppose this same issue of semantics is what dogs the Muslims who claim their religion is one of peace. They have evidence to cite that indeed, good things come from the members of their faith. There are Muslims who publicly decry the use of terrorism. However, the Koran instructs on the use of terrorism (public beheadings for maximum morale effect on the enemy, the destruction of innocents, rewards for martyrs.) Much like Islam, socialism has evidence to support how it has made positive contributions. A co-worker of mine lifted himself up out of poverty with the assistance of food stamps and welfare. I benefited from free (to me) healthcare in Kansas as a child.
The issue socialists see is that the greedy capitalists want to keep people poor. So when people within their camp come up with new ideas, the revolution begins.
When individual responsibility and motivation are circumvented by the state in an attempt to help, the individual is left helpless and dependent on the state. There are cases in which people benefit and then are able to contribute far more than they took. What capitalists are trying to get at is that the culture supported by "help" from the state breeds laziness, death and theft.
When the state provides instead of facilitates, it has unearned power over its constituents. It has usurped the personal responsibility of every individual contributing to it, owning it and making demands of it. When this happens, tyranny is not far behind.
Socialism is different than communism, but the socialists will not publicly declare communism an affront to personal liberty. Socialists do not cite the atrocities at the hands of their brethren. They only cite the combat free peoples have done against tyranny installed by communists. In doing so, they see America as the enemy of freedom.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
BaneMaier, the only way your idea truly benefits the poor is if the government requires everyone to contribute and organize a charity - which is far more government intervention than anything this country has planned to do. You seem to live in the same fantasy land that hyper-socialists do, one where everybody will contribute freely of themselves without any prompting. You think of taxes to support programs helping the impoverished and sick as a punishment, when really it's a responsibility you should be honored to uphold. I'm sure many of you have read or seen "A Christmas Carol", but evidently its warning against greed and lack of compassion have completely gone over your head. It is when we gloss over those who are the least of us that our government crumbles into decay, not we deign to help them.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
My reason for bringing up Islam is not to start a tangent. I just want to highlight that people who claim to have moral justification often are using propaganda that enables an extremist point of view. The "greater good" motivates some people with weak principles to become tyrannical the same way jihad does.
By focusing on personal responsibility, society could benefit by being further protected from tyranny. If everyone is responsible for themselves, they will not look to the state for benefits they don't need. When the state is not called upon to support those who don't need it, it has little to no justification to enlarge its domain.
Without the call for the "greater good" there is little reason to call for revolution and the imposition of tyranny.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
xz007, No I don't think the only way to get such a world is to force people to support charity. That is the system that we already have. Scrooge wasn't forced to give charity, he showed the power of the individual to be giving once educated enough about the problems in his community and how they impact his own life. The US is a charitable nation, easily the most giving comes from our citizens from anywhere else. Much of this comes from its belief in the individual and their capacity to do with what they earn as they wish. Maybe the charity you give is not what I would like to give. Maybe I see the value of getting rid of the middle man and ensuring 100% of every dollar I give goes to where I intend it to go and not into the pockets of bureaucrats. Maybe if you want to have the government as your surrogate then in a free society you should do so. I tend to believe that in a free society I should make the decision to opt out of that system and take care of the people causes that I care about. Your system does not give me that freedom of choice as the alternative I present does. In a free society you can have pockets and communities that agree to be socialistic. However, in a socialistic society try to be free.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
BaneMaier- Thanks for putting into words what is really going on here. Socialism isn't necessarily all about providing services for the poor, underprivelaged, elderly, sick, etc. It's more about taking the responsibility of families, private charities, volunteers, individual people, and others to care for these people and handing it over to a complex system of bureaucracy and inefficiency. When the government starts to take over and take care of it's citizens when they can't take care of each other, what does that say about us as a society? Anyways, I remember hearing Mr. Obama talking about some volunteer program, which I thought was a great idea. Something like one year of service to the community or something like that. If you ask me, we should do what other countries have done, and require that young people spend at least one year serving their community in some capacity. I doubt it would cost the government very much, but given how apathetic people are now a days about service, this would probably be money better spent than on more socialist programs which take responsibility out of the hands of the people.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
oh Calvin my dear friend, to quote you, "ky 102 go forth and read some history. After all this is a college. Do this because I am so tired of explaining the same things over and over again. You should have learned this stuff in high school." I am not here to defend socialism. I am here to push your buttons and to jerk your chain. I AM MOCKING YOU FOR HUMOR! Why, you may ask? Well, it's fun and because under your starched white sheet I know there is the beating heart of a human being who desperately wants to be accepted and loved. My suggestion to you is to log off and go out in the real world and meet people and HAVE SOME FUN! Life is short, enjoy it!
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
So ky, you have nothing to add?
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Maybe if we didn't have multiple 3rd world nations in the USA we wouldn't mind spending money on the needy.
Aid to Africa has been found to put local farmers out of business and keep people in poverty. Giving free stuff to people who could earn it diminishes their motivation to improve.
How about instead of giving more, we gave less?
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Thank you, kujayhawk, for putting my thoughts into better phrasing than I could have.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
kujayhawk such bigotry on your part. You say why don't the CHRISTIANS give to charity, you forgot about the Muslims who are supposed to give to the poor as a tenet of their religion. how sadddd...
As for the sheet comments above, do you think saying that to someone of mixed race is not stupid and offensive, and maybe racist?
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
It must be the fatigue or the thrill of the end of the semester but I finally figured out kujwks problem. He doesn't know what I'm talking about half the time. That would explain why his answers seem to have nothing to do with the conversation and other times it seems like he is practicing his one-liners. I've seen this with the student who can't read. He acts like it's a joke or makes off kilter comments until he can understand enough to figure out the words. I know, I know, kujwk will run to the Internet and find something clever to say or to "prove" his intellectual firepower. I mean, isn't the Internet great? Like a child with a gun, anyone can make themselves look good.
So I know where kujwk is coming from and can ignore him in the future. He is not worth the effort. Now watch him go into gyrations...
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
KuJayhawk, one strategy I use to better temper my online discourse is to step away from the computer when I am emotionally attached to the debate.
If you are angry, walk away and come back later. You will be much happier and be able to better express yourself.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Yes, you win the race towards being the most pedantic and childish. Your prize can be collected along with your government cheese.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Perhaps whether socialism works should be your MAIN and ONLY concern. Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Mao, Stalin, and yes even Hitler all believed and practiced socialism. In fact, socialism does not work and has never worked anywhere that it has been tried. That is of course, not even counting the millions of people that have been murdered by brutal socialist governments or the millions that are starving and poor. We, The United States of America, are a democratic republic which is the complete opposite of socialism. Socialist governments all over the world are gong broke and can't even care for their people. If you work hard and have a little luck you will go far. We don't need or want our govenment forcing money from of to spread around to whomever they choose. It's immoral. Lastly, think of it this way, you and I would probably be some of the first to be murdered by a socialist government who thought we might be a "problem".
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
People who choose not to study the facts consider only the economic system of socialism.
Those who study the history of tyranny understand that controlling motivation by rewarding laziness and punishing production help to enable the rise of a tyrant. The economic system of centralized control was used by the Germans and Russians in the early 1900s. Tyranny and control made them blood brothers. That is why they were allies against the free people's of the world. Free people impede theft by asserting their rights.
The economic and political systems in Europe are guided by philosophies schooled in history. Hence the ability for multiple countries to employ socialist policies without falling prey to tyranny.
However, those economic policies are failures. The welfare state is being dismantled.
You don't even need to do research to find this. Just go to the Financial Times or Bloomberg. Europe is turning off the spigot to the thieves.
Stop analyzing the world with your feelings and demanding that it "should be this or that." Use reason and understand what can happen, not what should happen.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequ... - KUjayhwak - this is directed at you.
Again, I ask for the use of reason instead of emotion in the analysis of reality.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
We are discussing socialism and you bring up a political question meant to divert the conversation into frivolity regarding a contentious issue with capitalism.
Issues with capitalism are not solved by stealing private property, enabling sloth and reducing motivation. (nationalization, cradle-to-grave welfare, state-control of prices/supply/R&D)
If you feel the laws surrounding corporations are wrong, go work for a lobbying group in Washington or Topeka. Seek to change the laws. Motivate others, inform others and direct that energy towards the goals you design.
See, now we aren't talking about socialism. I have found it to be a common tactic amongst those who are uninformed and support socialism/communism/anarchism. If they don't know what they are talking about, but insist on doing so, they frequently change the topic. It is the only way they can contribute.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=gdp
Did communism and theft produce the exponential rise in world capital?
Does a state which controls production and diminish productivity and risk-taking ventures (corporations) produce more food than it needs? Does such a state donate billions in aid to poorer nations?
Do communist countries set up funds which expand access to capital, thereby increasing the size of economies (tax bases able to pay for social welfare for the needy ie: medicare/caid, Social Security, and in Europe full maternity leave for either parent)
A resounding NO.
It is only through capitalism that the tax base can support those who are in need.
Socialism inspires laziness which diminishes risk taking ventures and shrinks tax bases. As the state-controlled economy shrinks, the state must steal more from the productive. In a capitalist country, far more wealth is created than is needed to sustain the population. That allows for re-investment.
Socialism is theft which starves production. Capitalism inspires people to act, and they do it despite the fact there are people out to steal from them.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
You just don't get it.
I have read your other comments and other people have called you out on your superficial understanding of the world.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
The European democracies are not socialist states, They are "mixed economies", just as the United States is. The variance is in the ratio - the difference is in the mix and the mix is not fixed in any nation.
The greatest redistribution of wealth in American history took place when George W. Bush signed his $1.5 trillion first tax cut into law. Most Americans got a check for about enough money to take the kids to Six Flags for a day. The wealthiest and most influential Americans - the ones who actually matter to politicians like Bush, got millions.
This redistribution of wealth made no significant impact on the economy. It didn't create jobs. It did piss away the budget surplus gained at significant sacrifice, especially by America's poor and disadvantaged. Reagan's Trickle-Down delusion became Bush's degrading golden shower.
The United States is not a capitalist nation. The United States has become a corporate socialist nation. This is the fruit of our Great Reagan revolution.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Socialism supports the people until the people who produce run out of money.
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Do yourself a favor and just move to France
Letter to the Editor: Socialism supports the people
Europe is dismantling its socialism. The programs cost too much and society isn't growing except through immigration. By introducing schemes which reduce the incentive to produce wealth, governments reduce their ability to collect taxes.
Even Cuba is starting to dismantle their socialism.
Venezuela is holding out because it can just pilfer the profits from their oil. Every other communist/socialist country is starving or dismantling their systems of theft.
Communists claim socialism is different than communism. Let them. Lies are lies.
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