Originally published March 10, 2010 at 9:09 p.m., updated March 10, 2010 at 9:09 p.m.
Video
Student Senate Finance committee votes to cut media fee
The Student Finance Committee voted 7-3 in favor of a bill that would cut $1.70 from the $4.00 Campus Media Fee.
Video
Student Senate fee debate
The Student Senate met Wednesday night to discuss allocation of student fees.
Mark Pacey, a graduate student from Manhattan and chair of the finance committee for the student senate, and Vans Copple, a senior from Salt Lake City and secretary of the finance committee, take questions Tuesday night from senate members regarding a proposed bill to cut $1.70 from student fees helping to fund the University Daily Kansan student newspaper. The bill, which would reduce the Kansan's budget by $83,000, received a majority vote to pass. The final phase of the bill will be introduced March 24 during the full senate meeting.
Members of the Student Senate Finance Committee voted 7-3 Wednesday to cut $1.70 from the $4 campus media fee and to eliminate the allocation of funds to The University Daily Kansan.
The cut would result in a loss of $83,200 for The Kansan, about eight percent of its $1.18 million annual operating budget. The remainder of the budget is used to finance printing and distribution costs as well as additional payroll. Senate would redistribute the fee money to increase the student health and transportation operation fees.
A $1 cut to the newspaper readership fee that passed the full Senate last semester is also included in the Senate’s reallocation bill. Because that cut passed after the start of the fiscal year, it was held until this bill.
The full Senate will debate and vote on the bill to cut the media fee March 24.
This is the only new cut proposed to the $423.35 semester student fees.
Mason Heilman, student body president, requested the media fee cut but was not present at the finance committee meeting. Alex Earles, student executive committee chairman, spoke in favor of the cut and read a memo from Heilman: “I, Mason Heilman, will not sign any campus fee review bill which does not include a complete elimination of any funding to any media outlet which actively reports on the activities of Student Senate.”
Heilman said Tuesday he wanted to cut out funding to The Kansan because he was dissatisfied with the relationship between the newspaper and Student Senate.
“To me, this is one of the most inappropriate relationships Student Senate has with any other outside group,” he said Tuesday.
The student media fee currently funds The Kansan, KJHK-FM, Kiosk magazine, Comma Splice magazine and KU Filmworks. KUJH-TV doesn’t currently receive media fee funding, but it is partially funded by The Kansan.
Attendees and committee members made five speeches against the proposed cut. Those included statements by The Kansan’s Editor in Chief Stephen Montemayor, Business Manager Cassie Gerken and General Manager Malcolm Gibson. Senators and attendees debated the issue for about an hour.
Montemayor, Gerken and Gibson explained how the cut would affect student jobs and the overall operation of the paper. Kansan staff couldn’t provide an exact number of expected employment losses, but said at least 20 staff members could lose their jobs.
“If the reporters have to be cut and our content goes down, the product quality goes down and advertisers don’t advertise,” Gerken said. “So it affects a lot of things.”
Montemayor said he was hopeful the proposal wouldn’t pass in full Senate.
“It’s certainly disappointing,” he said, “but it’s not the end of the road by any stretch.”
— Edited by Taylor Bern
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Comments
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
I guess the Kansan's endorsement of Heilman last year didn't really help them out much...
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Mason is clearly still sore that the comic strip "Nuclear Forehead" was dropped for absolutely no reason from the Kansan's comic strips. I mean that was seriously the only funny thing in that paper besides the countless spelling errors and needlessly split infinitives. I'm with Mason on this one. No one thinks Little Scottie is funny. No one. It's time someone addressed this injustice. Thank you Mason. Thank you
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Mason is exactly right. What does it say about freedom of the press, when the press is subsidized by the government? Would we want the U.S. government subsidizing the New York Times?
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Yes it does. Just because it has a lower readership does not mean that it does not count. That is like saying that voters in the city of Lawrence don't count because it is Lawrence and no one cares, especially when compared to New York or even KC. I completely disagree. The UDK has influenced people. It is one of the leading contributors to the new alcohol policy for KU. It also doesn't matter that no one cares, people should. The student codes, funding for activities and organizations and a lot of the things that make KU KU are decided by the student senate.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2010/mar/10/kus-student-government-threatens-pull-funding-stud/#comments
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Great article in the LJ World about how this could possibly be a violation of the 1st amendment.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
The Congress/NY Times comparison is absurd. In large part because the Times pays taxes and this doesn't influence its coverage. If Congress were truly concerned about "conflicts of interest" they wouldn't tax the Times, would they? Funding goes both ways. If it's OK for the Times to funnel money one way, student media fees (which, if I'm not mistaken, were passed by referendum) can be funneled the other way.
The LJ World article's SPLC source is correct when he says this is a First Amendment violation. Student government cannot cut off funding from student media based on the media's coverage and content. I believe the case specific to this issue is "State Board for Community Colleges v. Olson." Maybe Heilman should, you know, read it.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
May Davis pretty hot, so i forgive him
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
The student senate has become a joke, literally. Times have changed since my days on the student senate.
First, the Colbert thing, now cutting the paper funding which would save a measly $1.70 per semester? I can list a whole bunch of fees that I'd rather see cut than the newspaper.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Oh, I'm also sure that Student Senate must be willing to pay full price for the advertising space it uses in the Kansan. Not to do so would be, I'm sure, a conflict of interest.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
A couple of things:
From what I understand, Heilman is not opposed to giving student fee money to the UDK, a point I think wasn't clearly expressed in the first article on this matter. He is opposed to that money going toward salaries for students on the newspaper staff. Although the UDK currently pools all of its revenue in one general fund, it might consider budgeting in a way where student fee money went explicitly toward printing or other costs not associated with salaries. Making adjustments like this would be worth it to prevent a 7-10% decrease in operating funds.
In addition, the UDK could consider not endorsing a student senate candidate in order to allay Heilman's concerns about improper relationships.
That being said, I think Heilman is overstepping his bounds here. He did not call the student media allocation board before making this proposed change. If he was going to make a change that impacts a vital part of campus life, he should have contacted people with extensive knowledge on the matter first. In addition, Heilman wasn't even present to defend his decision at the committee meeting; he was on his way to Ireland for an early spring break. He should have been present to field questions instead of sending someone with a memo. A piece of paper has a limited voice.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
The UDK has provided, and will continue to provide (pending the outcome of this ridiculous cut) hundreds and hundreds of students the ability to gain real-world experience and put to use exactly what they're learning in the classroom.
Amazing, I thought that's what college was for.
Congratulations student senate, you'll get to continue your extracurricular education - but us journalists and advertisers wont. Way to be look out for the student body you are "representing."
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
The interesting thing is that this entire scenario invalidates Mason's point. By the time someone is in a position to have a major influence in the student fees (i.e. vetoing a budget proposal that does not cut funding to the Kansan) the endorsement has already occurred. His scenario is completely backwards because at this point it's pretty clear that his career in Student Senate is not dictated by the Kansan's opinion of him.
If any journalists are in need of a job, Senate executive positions are paid.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Part of me wonders if some of the people who voted for this bill in the committee really support this initiative. If I was still on the Finance Committee, I would have more than likely passed this. I don't necessarily agree with Mr. Heilman's sentiments about the Kansan's bias in the Student Senate elections, but I would want this to be debated on in full senate. The multitudes of debates on this heavyweight issue would be impressive to say the least, as one party comes out in support of the Kansan, and one against it.
I have to commend Mr. Heilman on his decision to roll this out now, just as things are heating up. There's nothing like good ol' fashioned controversy to get everyone excited about stuff nobody cares about. No doubt that members of Envision will start sniffing around for something smelly that Mr. Heilman & Co. left behind. I think I smell it too. This whole thing kinda smells funny, but I can't really put my finger on what it is. I'll leave that up to Mr. Ringer and Ms. Cantwell, since their friends seem to be really good at that.
We'll find out soon enough. KUnited has a plan I'm sure, and the snubbing the Kansan fits in there somewhere.....
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
I am appalled by the members of the KU student senate. They are unprofessional and were extremely rude to everyone speaking there last night, especially toward the people representing The Kansan. Mason Heilman wasn't even at the meeting because he left early for spring break. Way to go, Mason, you're really upholding your responsibilities as president. Glad you could go support the Lawrence Public Schools last week though, too bad you don't show the same support for your alma matter. Not only have these faux politicians put The Kansan in jeopardy, but they are taking away students' ability to gain experience in the profession they want to pursue after college. I hope someone takes away the senate's chance to practice what they want to do in the future. Mark Pacey was the worst. He spoke in a demeaning tone the entire meeting (except when his bill was the focus), talked and laughed during The Kansan amendment, and cut off Malcolm Gibson multiple times. Obviously no one taught him to respect his elders. He didn't even go to KU for undergrad, so clearly he has no appreciation for The Kansan, or the nationally recognized journalism program. The KU student senate is run by a bunch of morons whose parents probably pay that $4 fee anyway. Thanks a lot for ruining something great.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
ladymay: I am appalled by your barn burning. The UDK is not going to be destroyed, the world is not going to end, and your precious free for all will not be going away because the finance committee voted to send this proposal to the senate floor. If you knew at least something about the process of government, whether it is the "faux" government here at the University of Kansas or the "real" government in Topeka or Washington you would maybe understand this.
As for everyone else I think it is important to note that the point jschooljayhawk made was right on the money. Mason is not opposed to having the students pay a subscription fee he is explicitly opposed to the students paying for the salaries of other students. As jschooljayhawk pointed out if maybe the UDK decided that they could actually make a budget like every other group who gets funding from student senate in any form or fashion there would not be an issue at all here.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
ladymay: do you know how many scientists, engineers, and architects do work on campus for their profession FOR FREE? Sorry that not every internship can be paid. I'll keep doing my 10-20 hours of unpaid research a week, gladly, for my own benefit. If you /need/ money to do what you love, well, maybe you don't love it that much.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
So who's going to show up for the debate on March 24th to make sure student democracy is paid its due diligence?
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
I am so disappointed that Student Senate decided to cut a small fee from something so important and traditional instead of cutting more money from something that doesn't impact everyone as much. This is the stupidest thing they've dwelt on all semester.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
jschooljhawk: I'm really glad you brought up these points. I think it should be clarified for everyone that if it is indeed the case that "Heilman is not opposed to giving student fee money to the UDK... He is opposed to that money going toward salaries for students on the newspaper staff," well, that is illegal. Kansas Statute 76-720 clearly states that "athletic funds, student union funds and funds of student publications" are "exempt from disbursement requirements." This means that student senate cannot have any say whatsoever on exactly how the media fee funding is utilized once allocated to the Kansan; whether it is used for salaries or printing costs.
That legality aside, if Mason was "not opposed to giving student fee money to the UDK," then he wouldn't have demanded that line 168 of the bill be included stating "No Media Board funds shall be allocated to the University Daily Kansan." He also probably would not have reiterated in his interview and his written statement that he refuses to sign any bill allocating money to the Kansan.
I am extremely disappointed in the shameless, forceful misuse of power our elected leader is displaying. Furthermore, I am disgusted by his close-minded unwillingness to consider amendment propositions on this bill. The Kansan is completely student-run, completely constituent-run. Where is the interest of the student body in is agenda?
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Another note: sande007, The Kansan CAN and DOES make a very detailed budget. Which is submitted every year and on file at the student senate office. But again, it is illegal for senate to dictate how funding dollars are utilized within a student publication anyhow.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
sande007 - Before you state a fact make sure you have it right, like cmfive said, they do make a budget and you can go look at it. You are right though, the Kansan will survive even with the cut, but are you going to let your Student Senate break a STATE law just because they feel its their "time to do what they think is right?" Are you not afraid of where this might lead?...... supreme court anyone?
handy - You keep doing YOUR research for YOUR benefit. The Kansan is here for the STUDENTS and these students are in Stauffer-Flint past midnight 5 days a week (go check it out). They drive their own cars, pay their own gas, buy their own equipment and they do this for the benefit of the STUDENT. I bet that if your research some how benefited someone else, you would want to get paid.
I think you are all missing the BIG PICTURE
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
I think the UDK should schedule an interview with Mason Heilman and print the results. Questions to be asked:
Mason - this funding arrangement has been in play for some time now, why is this issue coming up now?
To your knowledge - have there been abuses of this relationship between the UDK and the Senate? The UDK endorsed YOU - was this legitimate?
Are you aware that there are legal precedents against this kind of proposal?
If you/Senate lose this vote - what will your relationship and view of the UDK be?
The analogy of the US Govt/NYTimes and the Senate/UDK is absurd. Mostly because both the Senate and UDK are part of the University of Kansas,
This whole thing smacks of an incident..an endorsement - or lack of one - that the Senate didnt like and now there is a power struggle going on....meantime - it is the STUDENTS of KU - whom the Senate and the UDK are there to support - that will lose if this proposal passes.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Why did Mason Heilman leave on Wednesday for Ireland when he knew this would be debated at the exact same time? Why did no other member of the Executive Staff (other than the Treasurers) express any opinion at the time of the meeting?
Didn't Heilman get the Kansan endorsement last year?
This doesn't make any sense...
KUnited would do well to distance themselves from the SBP. I mean Blockbuster Kiosks people, BLOCKBUSTER KIOSKS!!!!! I hope we get vending machines in classrooms too!
When the Kansas Union presented to the Campus Fee Review Subcommittee this weekend, they said they were investigating the possibility of implementing Blockbuster kiosks in the Union and other places around campus. KUNITED STOLE THIS IDEA. (and its not even that good).
KUNITED FTW.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Of course the story forgets to mention the UDK collects over a million dollars a year in ad revenue from bars, beer companies, cell phone folks and the like. $83,000 isn't that much in comparison.
Again - if the UDK took the time to report what the ALL speakers said - including the POSITIVE speakers in Finance committee, the people would be more informed and understand the reasons for the cut. They are not reporting this issue objectively - or even reporting on the other newsworthy events from yesterday. Q&A lost a lot of money. KU Student Farm didn't get any money. These are important. But, in traditional self-important reporting, neither have been reported on.
The sloppy and biased journalism that The Kansan is pushing out regarding this issue is further evidence we need to sever ties with them.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
I do not know Mason Heilman. I have no personal animosity toward him. However, I can't help but question his continued fitness to serve as student body president. Real leadership in a democracy means a willingness to listen to all sides of an argument and accept criticism - even if one feels it is unjustified. Leadership is not pulling a Banana Republic-like stunt and trying shut down the media. While the cutting of student fees wouldn't spell the end of the Kansan, it does sending a chilling message of intolerance and ignorance. Of course, not showing up at the meeting and having someone else represent one's narrow-minded view sends another message, as well. I am a journalism professor who was once a public official. I know what it is like to get skewered in the media. But I also know that in free societies, that's a price of doing business. If our student body president doesn't understand basic democratic values, then I respectively suggest that he is in the wrong business and should resign.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
HawkNation and cmfive - So let me get this straight you are saying that
"76-720: Local deposit of certain funds; exemption from disbursement requirements; annual report of receipts and expenditures. Athletic funds, student union funds and funds of student publications which were regularly published prior to July 1, 1955, may be deposited in local banks and be disbursed without compliance with K.S.A. 75-3727 to 75-3744, inclusive, and amendments thereto. The amounts of fees and other receipts credited to such funds, and expenditures therefrom, shall be reported annually by the chief executive officer of each state educational institution to the director of accounts and reports."
means that the University of Kansas Student Senate is not allowed to dictate how the funds are spent? I will freely admit that I am not very well versed in legal speak like this but I don't see what you quoted in there at all.
Even if the senate is not allowed to dictate how the funds are spent they ARE allowed to recommend that the fee be cut. In its place I would propose that we instead enact an Optional Campus Fee to support the publication of the UDK then all those who feel they should pay for the salaries of the UDK workers have a chance to do so.
Something else everyone, particularly those who are not familiar with the broad spectrum of the topics being discussed, might have missed is: "Senate would redistribute the fee money to increase the student health and transportation operation fees." This year we saw a large increase in bus ridership. In order to sustain that kind of ridership that fee has to increase, I guess what this might boil down to for Mason is he would rather see more people not being left on the corner in the rain, snow, dark, or whatever. Additionally, since that is a fee we absolutely have to maintain as opposed to the Media Fee where Mason might not only see a possible inappropriate relationship but also the editor in chief even clearly admits this is going to make it hard for them but not impossible to continue to publish the UDK.
Of course it all could come down to the fact that Student Senate is just aloof and Mason is just a mean mean man. Guess that is for you to decide when elections happen later this semester.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
The students at the Kansan are just trying to get the "real world" experience in their area of profession just like the students on student senate.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
dguth - You might have just made the most disgusting comment I've ever seen on this forum, and that's saying something.
You are a member of the faculty. How dare you try and interfere with student politics.
And how do you know Mason isn't listening to criticism? The fact that his actions don't sway with the hot air the Kansan blows around doesn't mean he's, "ignorant or intolerant." Maybe he just believes he's standing on principle.
It's you, sir, who needs to resign.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Enough- you're disgusting. He is a professor of many of the students who will be affected by this ridiculous cut. Which will eventually end up affecting the entire student body. So he does have a say, and a darn good one at that.
It's you, person, who needs to become a bit more educated (like Guth) before you open your mouth.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
I_Love_KU: This cut amounts to less than 10% of the Kansan's entire budget. Groups that rely solely on student senate funds have already seen budget cuts well in excess of 10%.
Explain to me why the Kansan is more important than those groups. Why is the Kansan more important than campus safety (whose fee was eliminated completely)? Why is the Kansan more important than scholarships for disadvantaged students (which have already been reduced)? Why is the Kansan more important than funding for every other student group (which has been reduced by waaay more than 10%)?
Answer me those questions, and maybe I'll change my mind.
Until then, it's time for the Kansan to face the facts: Every other entity at this university is facing steep budget cuts - you're not immune!
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Enough - and others. You are missing the point. This isnt about the AMOUNT of money that will be cut-- it's about the reason being put forth to justify the cuts - the so called "inappropriate relationship" between UDK and the Senate.
If this were just about budget cuts - I don't think you see the kind of passion shown on this subject in this forum.
The proposal appears to be a power struggle, vendetta or some other motive that isnt clear. It is also fraught with First Amendment and legal issues.
If UDK hasnt already done so, I suggest they get some legal folks involved and nip this before wasting anymore people's time at the full senate hearing.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
KU_Dad: When the Kansan was looked at in the past to be part of broad budget cuts (that affected every other department/organization on campus), they went bonkers. Absolutely nuts. Of course, they didn't give any meaninful coverage to the fact that everyone else was getting cuts too, they were just looking out for their own behinds.
Whether it's for financial reasons, or for an inappropriate relationship, the Kansan fee needs to be reduced. Period.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Sande007 - You are right, you are not "versed in legal speak." Let me break it down.
"76-720: Local deposit of certain funds; exemption from disbursement requirements; annual report of receipts and expenditures." - this part tells you what the legislation is about.
"Athletic funds, student union funds and funds of student publications which were regularly published prior to July 1, 1955," - these are the organizations that the exemption includes.
" may be deposited in local banks and be disbursed without compliance with K.S.A. 75-3727 to 75-3744, inclusive, and amendments thereto." - this says what these organizations can or cannot do. (the included amendments deal with forms, employee transfer of power, write-offs.... read them if you like http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-statutes/index.do
"The amounts of fees and other receipts credited to such funds, and expenditures therefrom, shall be reported annually by the chief executive officer of each state educational institution to the director of accounts and reports." - this says that these organizations must file an annual report to show where the money went.
If you need more clarification, you should talk to a professor.
You are also correct that student senate DOES have the right to cut funding, if the reason is just. “This is my time to do what I think is right," does not sound just.
Based on your argument about the buses I will assume that you are a Mason supporter, which you are entitled to be. Now consider what Mason represents, the voice of the student body. Is cutting the ENTIRE Kansan budget in the best interest of the STUDENTS?
SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT THE LONG-TERM EFFECT IF THIS PASSES... PLEASE THINK!
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
The Kansan is not just facing a budget cut from senate, they are facing an elimination of the entire funding they receive from student fees. Coincidentally, the media fee is being cut by EXACTLY the amount that is allotted the Kansan, with an additional line (168) attached to ban funding to the Kansan from the media fee at all. So as I see it, this doesn't seem to have much to do with budgeting. Seems like it's an agenda against the Kansan. For me, it's not just about the dollars. It's the principle of the issue as well. This bill is in direct violation of the First Amendment. As a journalism student, that is alarming. Journalism student or not, as an American citizen, you should be alarmed too.
But "enough," I respect your view and while you're right- this is a difficult economic climate and there are other student groups with other interests too- I think the Kansan has a right to contest this issue. For journalism students, the UDK is the epitome of student involvement in their education (kind of like senate is for political science majors, for example).
Perhaps more importantly for those outside the J-School, the Kansan is a highly recognized college newspaper (#1 in the nation two out of the past three years) that attracts positive attention to the School of Journalism and thus, KU. Their success trickles out across the campus and Lawrence.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
HawkNation:
The student senate funds only amount to less than 10% of the Kansan's overall budget. Every other department on campus has faced cuts far more severe.
The Kansan would continue to be the great treasure it is to campus, don't worry about that.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Sorry, didn't see your comment just then. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Dude, just think if this happened last year.....
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
HawkNation - Once again you failed to point out where specifically that says Student Senate is not allowed to tell the UDK how they appropriate the funds. Basically all it says is that the aforementioned groups are allowed to deposit money but they do not have to play by the same rules that everyone else has to according to KSA 75-3727 through 75-3744 which you point out has nothing to do with regulation of how funds are appropriated. Thus I think it would be prudent for you to talk to that professor.
Next, lets look at the comment about the buses. This in no way means I am a supporter of Mason, and how you jumped to that conclusion is beyond me. I ran and voted Envision last year and I despised the way Heilman/Davis ran their campaign last year. That DOES NOT mean though that I will refuse to consider and weigh the benefits and pitfalls of every proposal I've seen and will continue to see in senate this year.
Lastly I have to point out that this is not cutting the ENTIRE KANSAN BUDGET like you bleeding hearts want to claim. It is cutting 7-10% of the budget. Do not forget that the UDK rakes in $1mil+ in ad revenue and it is implausible to jump to the conclusion that cutting $83,000 from their budget will in anyway do anything else but make them think just a few seconds long on how best to spend their money.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
sande007, You keep missing the phrase "exemption from disbursement requirements." This means that the organizations receiving the money are protected from any requirements on the way the distribute the money.
No, this isn't cutting the entire Kansan budget but it would be cutting the entirety of funding that the Kansan receives from the students. If Senate suggested cutting all funding from another group I'm sure that group would respond in the same way the Kansan has. Though the Kansan does earn a lot of money from ad revenue, that money is needed for operating costs of the Kansan. I don't know what the cost of the printing contract is but I guarantee you it's very expensive. $83,000 may seem small but for students who are paid little to begin with, it means the loss of jobs. With loss of jobs comes loss of content.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
cmfive - The Student Senate is in no way saying that the UDK is not allowed to print or telling them what they are and are not allowed to print. Thus I cannot see how this is a 1st amendment issue at all.
Additionally, I cannot see an issue with asking some of these students to forfeit their pay and strive to churn out work that will someday allow them to be one of the hired few who do get paid for it. I'm sorry to say but if you are willing to not do something just because you are not going to get paid for it that is indicative that you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place. There are thousands of students across this nation that every year participate in unpaid internships that give them VALUABLE on the job experience. Unfortunately, with the way the economy is right now the number of unpaid versus paid internships is tilting way in favor of more unpaid internships. In a few years as the economy settles this might tilt back in favor of paid internships.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
"Once again you failed to point out where specifically that says Student Senate is not allowed to tell the UDK how they appropriate the funds."
I believe the case you're looking for is "State Board for Community Colleges v. Olson." Student governments cannot withdraw funding from student media outlets for content-based reasons.
"Courts have been consistent in ruling that at the public colleges and universities, school officials, including student government officers, may not exercise the power of a private publisher over student publications simply because they provide financial support. "
From the Student Press Law Center.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
ethics7 - It says that it does not have to disburse it funds like KSA 75-3727 through 75-3744 make everyone else do it. That does not say that it cannot be told how to do this. You should also look into how much funding BSU lost this year and what it means for their group. I think it is important to note that the story covering how much funding they were not approved for this year doesn't even exist on the UDK website. Why is that? Does the UDK not feel BSU is an important group? Oh and almost all of the questions you raised can be answered by watching the 53 minute video posted along with this story.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
sande007-
In regards to your above comments...
If you watch the video you will hear that printing costs are over $350,000 per year...and they have various other fixed costs so it's not really about judging how to "best spend the budget." Of course they could cut jobs, but why do they even need to when students voted to pay for the fee!! This is not about the money at all. They also mention in the video how very few student jobs actually get paid (mainly being managers) and that the majority of these students work 30+ hours per/week for free....and willingly do so. So clearly, it is not an object of "working for free"
The true reasoning behind this is general dislike for the Kansan, and Mason and other supporters of this bill have made that very clear.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
KU_J_alum - I agree Mason's logic is a little faulty but that does not mean that the reason the rest of us feel that the fee should be reallocated is bad. I personally don't feel that there is necessarily an improper relationship between the UDK and Student Senate (as mentioned many times the Coalition the UDK endorses hardly ever wins much of anything) but I do feel that at this time it is prudent to cut the $1.70 from the Media Fee and reallocate it to another area where it is needed.
As I said earlier I do not feel that students should be forced to pay for the salaries of our student journalists, there are plenty of other ways that money can be obtained. For example an optional fee or increasing the fees paid by journalism students per credit hour simply for the opportunity to write for the UDK since it primarily benefits the J-School students anyway.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
rockchalk6842 - The video also mentions that student salaries are $350,000 as well. Um if they make $7.50 an hour that is a lot of salaries. As far as working for free they do not work for free they work for the chance to get the experience that they can then put on their application when they graduate. But clearly all this hooplah about reducing the fee is just because all the senators hate the UDK and Mason is a mean mean bully right?
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
sande007-
Like they said in the video if you had watched, the reason the $1.70 pays for salaries is purely an accounting issue. In a sense, that $83K goes into a pot with ad revenue, and some of that pays for salaries. Yes, the student fee money goes directly to salaries because it is easier for payroll to write checks from...but as they said last night...the budget is transparent, you can go pick up a copy and check it for yourselves.
Think about a regular newspaper. If I pay $100 for the NYT to be delivered to my house each day...I am paying a subscription fee. Where does that money go? Probably to salaries, or printing costs, or something else but I don't care because I am getting my paper!
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
"As I said earlier I do not feel that students should be forced to pay for the salaries of our student journalists, there are plenty of other ways that money can be obtained. For example an optional fee or increasing the fees paid by journalism students per credit hour simply for the opportunity to write for the UDK since it primarily benefits the J-School students anyway."
Does that mean that I shouldn't be forced to pay for boat houses that I can't use and Student Senate exec board salaries? Maybe Student Senate should be pay-to-play, too.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
It's true, the Student Senate can't determine how the funds should be spent after they're allocated. They can, however, determine whether or not they should be allocated in the first place.
It's pretty clear that Student Senate isn't doing this because of the coverage they received (Mason got the endorsement, afterall), they're doing it because 1. they need the money for the student hospital and 2. because it's an inappropriate relationship.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
sande007,
Since KU_J_alum addressed your first point for me, I'll just touch on the second. Two thirds of the Kansan staff already is completely unpaid; it is such a valuable experience that they embrace it gladly. However these are mostly starting positions (reporters and account executives) demanding about 20 hours per week. The "management" positions are the paid positions. These are the experienced staff members who train, manage and advise other students on top of their own responsibilities. They are vital to the success of both editorial and advertising staffs. Most of these individuals invest upwards of 40-50 hours per week. You can literally find them in the Kansan offices at all hours. While these individuals are extremely passionate about what they do, it simply is not plausible for them to invest 40+ unpaid hours as a student with rent and, for many, tuition and other costs. As you can imagine, 40-50 hours on top of school does not leave time for a second job. In fact, there are many people in the J-school with me who have wanted to work for the Kansan but just couldn't afford to do so without pay.
Furthermore, they don't even get paid for all the hours they put in. I believe the cap is at 20 hours. But they are so passionate about what they are doing for the school, the paper, students, and their futures that they give far more.
I can completely see your point, it's just absolutely not within a student's means to invest this time for free.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
@cmfive
Here's a rough breakdown of salaries on the news side: Editor: 33 hours per week Managing editors: 26.5 hours per week Head section editors: 17 hours per week Associate editors: 14.5 hours per week (roughly; I was never an associate editor but it's in that neighborhood) Photographers: Flat rate per photo published, which could be several or none Designers/Copy Chiefs: Flat rate based on shifts worked (I believe this is anywhere from $15 for a short design shift to $45-ish for a copy chief shift).
The business manager's salary is comparable to that of the editor, and the rest of the business staff is paid on commission.
Note that this is the maximum we can be paid. It's nothing for a night editor to be in the newsroom from 4 p.m. to 1 a.m. or even later, and that's on top of their regular desk duties. It's also not unusual for upper management to be working in some capacity for 40-50 hours per week on top of school. Many editors are also in other advanced media classes such as copy editing, Jayplay, photography and Web production, in which case they take on additional unpaid work.
And you're right, there is no way for many of us to devote time to the Kansan and do our jobs well, hold down a full credit load AND work an additional job to pay tuition, rent and basic living expenses. There needs to be a set hierarchy of experienced managers who can help train and mentor the younger staff members. It's called staff development and it's made possible because we can invest time in it without the need for other jobs hanging over our heads.
If anyone's curious about the hours the staff puts in or the nature of our work, trek up to S-F at midnight from Sunday-Thursday. Just be sure to bring the night editor, copy chief and design chief some coffee. :-)
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
cmfive & KU_J_alum - while it seems nice that you have chosen to break down an approximate hour by hour work load for a few of the positions it would also be interesting to note how much those individuals make on an hourly basis. I am not saying in the last bit that it is a requirement that if we cut this fee out that they have to make 20 jobs that used to get paid $7.50 / hour unpaid internships. It could also be the case that some of the higher paid positions receive less next year. There are dozens of ways for the UDK to find the money in their budget, print less papers, reduce paid positions, reduce salaries, or even cut sections of the paper they are experimenting with (The Wave). Those are just a few and I am sure in these tough economic times there are other creative ways they can find to save money.
As far as the Student Senate exec salaries go I don't mind seeing those done away with altogether either but along that same logic that means everyone who works at the UDK would need to be unpaid.
rockchalk6842 - You are correct you don't care because you want and pay for that paper, some students here I am sure don't read the UDK and could care less if it is printed or not. Why should they have to pay for it if they are not going to read it? Just so we can give the budding journalists in our J-School the opportunity to practice writing newspaper articles? What do they do in class if they don't practice writing newspaper articles?
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
enough - 1. student funding not senate (this funding is strictly for media outlets, not student senate, it just passes through their hands). 2. you are right and i think it's been clarified that the Kansan will survive either way, but you are still missing the bigger picture. If a round of cuts are needed, make them fair.
sande007 - really, take the legislation and go talk to a professor, because you sound silly. I apologize for assuming you were a Mason supporter and I'm glad that you still have an open mind. You are right about the budget, but lets get clear on something, budget and funding are two different things, and they are cutting ALL of the funding. For someone who might not be in the know on the COST of raking in $1mil a year, 83k might seem irrelevant. That 83k pays the salaries of the students that MAKE the Kansan budget. Ask the senate for UDK's annual report, look it over, then get back to me. This cut is a violation of the first amendment, here is how.... “The fact that The Kansan endorses a student senate coalition each year, there is potential for student senators to be influenced by that, as saying, ‘Hey, I support The Kansan, you should support me,’” - Mason. He is talking about the content in the paper. right? that it influences senators, right? now he wants to pull the funding because he thinks its wrong, right? It is illegal for senate to pull funding because of content, first amendment. You should talk to a professor. I would recommend prof. Guth As far as your comment on the UDK staff working for free, they probably would, but do you know how many man hours are required to produce one paper? You really think that those students have time for a side job when they are on call 24hrs a day? You are right though, if they are not willing to do it for free they shouldn't be doing it in the first place. But let us apply your logic to senate, you think they would work for free? I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong) that most of senate does not have time for a part-time job, so once again, they may be willing to work for free, but they financially can't. Talk to your friends that work 40+ hours a week and ask them how they are doing in school. Get back to me
I can't believe you said this "For example an optional fee or increasing the fees paid by journalism students per credit hour simply for the opportunity to write for the UDK since it primarily benefits the J-School students anyway." You really need to THINK here friend. It would be the same as cutting the funding for the basketball team. They have endorsements and sponsorships and they too would survive, because I mean the athletics program only benefits athletes, right? The SBP is the voice for the student BODY (meaning all students) Why do you neglect your peers? because they have different majors that you do not understand.
You seem like a well driven student, but really, stop talking about things you don't fully understand.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Wait a second...people are actually saying we should pay these student-writers to write in the UDK? Why should they be paid in the first place? They get "real-world" experience, that is payment enough.
Don't ask the students to pay your salaries, mostly because you shouldn't be paid $7.25/hr to write a 200 word article in a college newspaper.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
sande007- 1. They make $7.50/hr 2. The J-school does require news & info students to write articles in class but participating in the full production of a publication is far different and cannot be emulated in a 3-credit hour class. The Kansan has a partnership with these classes to provide them such an opportunity. But it isn't just about those budding journalists. There is so much that goes into printing a paper and all the other products the Kansan supports. In fact, the majority of the j-school is Strategic Communications which feeds into advertising, marketing and PR. The Kansan provides design, sales, promotion, management & production jobs as well. 3. You're right. Not everyone reads the paper. Just like not everyone uses the buses, rec center, boathouse and other services we ALL pay for. It's based off a student-wide vote that all these mandatory fees were passed. And students voted in favor of paying $1.70 per semester to have the Kansan available to them.
I am not trying to be argumentative here. Honestly, before I applied to the school of journalism and knew what went into the Kansan, I might well have had the same opinion as you. I didn't want the bus fee to pass because I don't use it but it passed, which tells me that I didn't represent the majority and that's the beauty of democracy.
That is just in response to your feedback. But I want to remind everyone that we're getting away from the entire platform being argued before Senate. The salaries are a huge distraction from the issue at hand. The bill itself may have legal issues and the way Mason is going about this is not what I, personally, would expect from my student body president. He has made it very clear that he refuses to even consider amendments to this bill unless the Kansan remains completely cut.
With that said, in response to something posted by handy on a different page, I have no doubt that Mason devotes a great deal of time to his position on top of things outside of senate; I respect that. But I am not objecting to him as a person. I am criticizing him as our elected president as we all have a right to do.
Sorry for the novel. : /
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Real world experience is great, and in no way will this legislation harm that experience. Take a second to realize that no other school ([at the University of Kansas] or very few) get paid to do an internship sponsored by student dollars? So, in turn, every student is helping support the Kansan's "Real World Experience". No architecture, or art student, or African American studies student is getting any internship money paid by the student fees, your pockets.
I will point out something that no one has, explaining that the students who are employed by the UDK do provide a "service"(I didn't say it was good) to the students for their money (not saying it is justified, however it is a fact). I am not contradicting myself, because I believe whole heartedly with my opinion, its just a fact that has to also be out there.
Where the Kansan goes wrong, is pushing their agenda into the campuses largest student media outlet, poor journalism and appalling, (but a good business tactic). Will the Kansan still exist if this fee is cut? Yes Can students get real world experience is this fee is cut? Yes Does Mason Heilman look good in blue? Yes
The thing we forget is this: Student fees are voted in by the student body, and normally done so, to benefit the student body as a whole. Do all students use the buses? No, but in 2008, by referendum, it was voted to increase that fee for more services and upkeep. The idea is, we, on a whole, care about the KU Community and will pay these fees to bring the greater goods and services to all students. We could make every fee optional, and all of the student resources would suffer, based on a student by student basis. However, we must take into consideration, the future of some of these fees. Almost every student fee was trimmed back, if not cut, last year. Yet, the Kansan fee still remained unscathed, and feels a type of entitlement. We have to ask ourselves, does this really benefit all students. (Not the newspaper itself, but the fact that they get paid out of our own pockets.)
If sent to vote by referendum, the Kansan, judging by the already current onslaught of self-publicity, and spin, will push their own agenda through the largest campus media outlet to sway a vote. Will I listen to it? Probably not, however, it is our job as students, and citizens of the KU Community, to make the best decision we can, with the information we have been presented with. (Jury, please disregard the evidence given by the UDK)
People will nitpick every minute detail of my arguement. I only care about the best interest for the students, and in this time of financial turmoil and uncertainty. I think if journalists want some real world experience from somewhere other than the UDK, ask the Lawrence Journal World or the Topeka Capital Journal… wait, they won’t pay you for an internship?!?! Whaaaa?! You are not entitled to it. Welcome to the "real world experience."
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
HawkNation - First what legislation are you talking about? The fee recommendation? Because there will be no objections from any single professor from law school, j-school, whatever school. There is nothing illegal with reducing or eliminating a fee. The point that everyone is trying to argue is illegal is Mason's justification with why he was reducing this fee (which is in NO WAY included in the fee proposal that is in question here it was only mentioned in a news paper article as his personal reason for suggesting the cut). I have already, multiple times even, admitted that this justification is the worst I have heard in a long time but, I could care less how Mason justifies why he chose to cut the UDK fee. As I have indicated I am a Student Senator and I will be voting to support this fee cut because I feel the UDK can easily do without this revenue while there are other programs that we are required to increase the funding to. So rather than increase the overall student fees I feel it is prudent to cut funding from someone who can make do without. As far as Senate and jobs I am a non paid senator, and the majority of our senate is unpaid. In fact I believe that there are 6 paid positions in the whole of senate as compared to what 60 at the UDK? Finally, how much does the average student pay in student fees to the athletics department? I just can't seem to find anywhere that says we pay anything unless we choose to goto the games. Yet yearly the athletics department donates to the general scholarship fund for the whole university. I must have missed something there though right? No? cmfive - While a lot of effort and time might go into producing the paper that does not indicate that we should be required to pay their salaries by any means. I work for the Kansas Memorial Unions Information Technology department, we support every single computer that is located in student senate as well as silc yet none of these organizations pay me to clean their computers of viruses or make sure they are running smoothly. Because I do work that supports a large portion of the student body should I have a fee that appropriates money to my department for my salary? Also I have a hard time believing that every person that has a paid job at the UDK makes $7.50 an hour, maybe the low people on the totem pole make $7.50 but not everyone. My whole point is that I don't feel that all students should be required to subsidize the educational opportunities of the J-School let alone pay for the salaries of those people. I really have a hard time believing you would think it would be ok for us to charge a fee that allocated money to the arts and architecture department so that they could fund the art and buildings that they make and build and display for the University to consume. No instead those departments have a built in fee per credit hour that their students pay.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Oh and as Matt Shaw did on another thread on this same topic I would definitely like to give you the opportunity to privately contact me with any concerns you might have if you choose to do so. My name is Scott Anderson and I am a non-trad student senator. You can contact me at sande007@ku.edu. I look forward to hearing all your opinions!
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
sande007-
Just as a point of clarification here, as stated in the video from the senate meeting, only the managing editors, and about 7-8 managers on the ad staff get paid. The rest of the ad staff is on commission while the reporters do not get paid at all. So...not 60 people.
Lastly-
In response to your comment "rockchalk6842 - You are correct you don't care because you want and pay for that paper, some students here I am sure don't read the UDK and could care less if it is printed or not. Why should they have to pay for it if they are not going to read it? Just so we can give the budding journalists in our J-School the opportunity to practice writing newspaper articles? What do they do in class if they don't practice writing newspaper articles?"
As was stated in the video, you may not read the Kansan, but 81% of the campus does. I don't go to the rec, but the majority of campus does. There is a much larger purpose to the paper than just writing stories for fun. Whether it's reading the news or playing sudoku, let the numbers speak for themselves.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
If the paper's "subscription fee" wasn't buried in a student fee, I highly doubt people would be willing to spend money on buying each individual issue. I doubt I would be less informed in my life if I went without reading the UDK every day.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
rockchalk6842: "Just as a point of clarification here, as stated in the video from the senate meeting, only the managing editors, and about 7-8 managers on the ad staff get paid. The rest of the ad staff is on commission while the reporters do not get paid at all. So...not 60 people."
Really? Only the managing editors? What about the senior reporters, the photographers, the designers, the cartoonists... the list goes on.. There are a TON of paid positions. Don't act like it's only a handful.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
rockchalk6842 - as point_plankn pointed out there are many more paid positions than 7 or 8. The video says that their budget is $350,000 for printing costs and $350,000 for student salaries. I sure hope there are a heckuva lot more than 7-8 paid positions... Another point of clarification 81% of students read the paper at least once a week according to the video. Of course 81% of all statistics are completely made up (hmm ironic I made that 81% up too...) I would really like to see the methods for collecting that data before I put my faith and stock in it. Notice they also said 61% of students read Jayplay a week. Again I would like to see the methods for the data that backs that up. But hey that is not really the point here. I have no doubt that the paper is a highly valuable source of information for a large portion of the student body. That is not in question here, what is in question here is whether or not students should pay the UDK salaries. The questions is whether or not we should subsidize the learning of one group as a student body while not doing the same for other sections of the student body. I still have no problem in the creation of an optional fee for the UDK, otherwise I think it will really need to be considered if we want to pay for art students to make sculptures that will be displayed around campus, or how about the band to play at certain events around campus, or even how about we pay our athletic training students who work with our athletic teams? It is going to be hard to not justify fees so these students can get paid for their opportunities to get professional experience.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Well said, Sande!
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
"Wait a second...people are actually saying we should pay these student-writers to write in the UDK?"
Um, The Kansan doesn't pay student writers. Reporters, copy editors, sports writers, columnists, Jayplay writers and reviewers are unpaid. I'm not sure where you ever got the idea that they were. The only people who get paid are editors, designers and photographers. And if design were an advanced media class, I doubt they'd be paid to complete their shifts, either.
I also want to point out that the 81% statistic is based on research on the ad side of the paper. If you're interested in where that number comes from, I'm sure they'd be happy to fill you in. It's also a figure included in the Kansan's media kit and it's used to promote purchasing advertising. I certainly hope it's not "made up on the spot" or we'd be in hot water with our advertisers. Then again, the Kansan staff is also apparently lacking enough in integrity that its reporters would trade coverage for money...
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
I would like to tell everyone above who brought up advertising that without the money that 83,000 the Kansan would have to cut Jayplay and The Wave, because they wouldn't have the money to print them anymore. That would cut out A LOT of ad money. Plus, like Cassie said in the video it would begin a domino effect. If they cut that money from the Kansan, they will not be able to pay as many people. It doesn't matter how much time you spend as a researcher on campus. The editors at the Kansan spend hours - nearly as much as a full-time worker on the newspaper. Also - since the UDK would be the only unpaid paper in the Big 12 - why in the world would students want to attend?
Look, most of the people on the Kansan are not paid. I know journalism students who hope to someday work their way up the ladder to get an editor job - not only to put onto their resume, but to make money to pay for Journalism school.
Also, as a researcher you are not creating a product. How would you feel if you built a toy as an engineer student and KU just distributed it for free? Pretty cheated out, huh? KU students consume the Kansan, and those who work on it do NOT get school credit, so they should get money. It takes up a lot of time.
Also, what an awful president to propose something and then literally jet on vacation. And the guy who he gave the bill to should have been prepared enough to take questions, don't you think? Or maybe those treasurers who snapped at the KJHK guy Tom should have taken questions? Also, what was up with the girl who threw a visual fit when the UDK GM told her that the budget is on file for anyone to see? KU Senate needs to grow up, and realize that they're not that influential.
Also as Tom Cox said. They are just an arm handing the UDK money. The money does not directly come from them. It comes from the students.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
GillSP: Yeah, the journalists SHOULD go get internships at those newspapers! It'll be fun. They can fetch coffee and make copies for all of the journalists. Internships rarely give a student real work. Internships are set up to show you what it is like to work in the environment - not HOW to work in that environment.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
"If they cut the funding, then they would have to cut the jayplay and the wave." These products are solely designed to create extra revenue through the paper. The Jayplay generates huge revenue from bars and concerts, while the majority of Lawrence businesses prefer to advertise with basketball. If this funding gets cut I expect to see them print more special sections to cover their butts/
Second, why are the supporters of the Kansan arguing that this fee covers student salaries, then arguing that not many students get paid? It is one or the other, not both. Supposing previous quotes are right, and you have approx 10 managers getting paid. You then have 5 zone managers plus 5 people per zone approx. in the ad department. Thats 30 people. Those 75% are paid on what they sell, so it shouldn't come out of Student Fees money anyway. That means 10 people are getting 83,000.00 per year? I doubt that, considering from all accounts the Kansan's accounting system is likened to a giant bucket filled with money, and nothing appropriated for specific reasons.
The Kansan would be the most undersupported paper in the Big XII, if student fees were it's only source of income. Fortunately for the UDK, they bring in over one million dollars in revenue annually. That's also MORE than the newspapers in the Big XII.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
It's ironic that the Kansan reporter covering this is titled as the "Crimes and Misdemeanors" reporter..
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
KU_J_alum - I would love to see the methodology for gathering their statistics. Do they base it off of how many papers are left over at the end of the day because there are what seems to be thousands. Do they take into account the number of people who grab more than 1? More than 5? I would absolutely love to know!
JayhawkFromOuterspace - I am glad to know you think so highly of our reaserchers on campus. It sounds to me based on your blatent disrespect for them that you have absolutely no clue what anyone outside the J-School even does. Of course I fear you forgot how to read as well because as I pointed out above the band, student athletic trainers, artists, architects, and many other majors make or perform services consumed by the student body and they are not paid. Not to mention the many engineering groups who create projects that represent the university at competitions demonstrating the superiority of our engineering department. They don't go buy these projects at the store and they don't get to keep them. Oh yea and they don't get paid to make them. And while there are a few engineering groups that get funding (Jayhawk Motorsports is one I can think of) most of them don't.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
sande007: So are you saying my math TA shouldn't be paid since she is "just getting experience" and neither should the RAs, the Geology researchers, the EECS graders, the writing help room workers, and any other TAs. I mean they're all getting experience, right? Great, you've demonstrated the engineering students make things and bring them to competitions. That's cool. If they patented these things and sold them wouldn't they be entitled to pay? They don't. If you're studying to be an actor then you are performing a great service, but what you do does not directly affect KU students. You don't give them vital information, nor are you trusted to be in charge of a handful of other students.What you're saying is ludicrous. People that make art, make art to get better at making art. These are mostly individual works and there are ways of getting funding from the school. I know for a fact that PhotoMedia and Film students are allowed to apply for grants to work on they art they love. If you want to tell someone who spends that much time on something so pertinent to most of the KU body that they deserve some money then they may be forced to leave their position just to find an outside job. Newspapers are also on daily deadlines. Researchers aren't. Maybe you should consider these things before you make so bold a statement that the journalists on the Kansan staff don't deserve to be paid, Sandy007.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Wow it is not even worth my time nor energy to even contemplate refuting the rediculous things you said yet I'll do my best to point out your incompetance. Let's start with your math ta, you do realize that a lot of TAs are paid predominately through reduced school costs correct? You also realize that a large part of them do not plan on going on to teach but rather do it as a job. Doesn't really sound like they are using it as an educational tool. Do you see the difference now between your 101 ta and the newspaper staff? I mean by that logic we should I guess not get paid for any job we do cause we learn something from it. How about RAs I mean really? Once again paid in reduced room and board but do you really think these guys are going to school to be building managers? The EECS graders are once again not getting job experience rather they are ONLY performing a service. Your next major fallacy comes when you pretend to know about an engineers ability to obtain the rights to something they design while at KU. Sorry to say buy all inventions are property of the university. Of course that doesn't mean they don't get paid for it for sure. So basically here is what it boils down to: you are absolutely clueless and you have repeatedly demonstrated that. Before you open your mouth I would go check with one of your editors because fact checking is super important for a j-school student. Here is the skinny, there hundreds of students who produce things for the university who don't get paid. In addition there are dozens of groups who have seen their funding decreased but there is only 1 group who hasn't seen theirs go down in two years now. Sorry but the economy sucks, it's time for the UDK to make some sacrifices similar to what the rest of the university has had to make.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
@JayhawkFromOuterspace
Not to mention the fact that many of us get the internships we do based on our clips and editorial leadership experience on the Kansan. People act like we can show up at the LJ World or Topeka Capitol-Journal or Kansas City Star with no college media clips or management experience and get internships, and that's ridiculous.
@jayhawk2009
Actually Jayplay is directly tied to the J School's magazine-writing curriculum, and The Wave helps take spillover content from the sports writers. They're not "just" a money spinners.
@sande007
If you're that curious about the methodology, you're welcome to speak with the ads staff. I'm sure they'd be happy to explain it to you. You can find them in the business office in Stauffer-Flint Hall. Also, if you're ever in need of a good copy editor for your research, I'm sure the J696 kids can help you out.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
"Second, why are the supporters of the Kansan arguing that this fee covers student salaries, then arguing that not many students get paid? It is one or the other, not both. Supposing previous quotes are right, and you have approx 10 managers getting paid."
That's not what we're saying. We're saying that MOST positions are unpaid. And they are. All reporters, sports writers, columnists, correspondents, copy editors, Web producers, KUJH reporters, Jayplay writers and reviewers are unpaid. The managers and editorial leadership are paid, along with staff members whose work isn't part of the advanced media curriculum (namely designers, most photographers and cartoonists).
Salaries on the news side are for: 1 editor 4 managing editors (two print, one Web, one KUJH) 3 campus editors 2 opinion editors, one of whom is an associate 3 sports editors, one of whom is an associate, one of whom is the Wave editor 2 Web managers, one for content and one for programming 2 Jayplay editors, one of whom is an associate 5 copy chiefs 3 design chiefs 2 photography editors, one of whom is an associate 1 correspondents/special sections editor 13 photographers, who are paid on a per-photo-run basis 10 designers, who are paid per shift 9 editorial/strip cartoonists, who are paid per cartoon
That's the case for this semester. It can vary based on the needs of the staff (i.e. there could be more or fewer copy chiefs, or more of fewer design chiefs, or only two campus editors). As you can see, it's decidedly more than 10 positions. But it still pales in comparison to the 125+ unpaid staff members in any given semester.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
@sande007 I could say the same exact thing about your ridiculous statements. The UDK REALLY deserves to have its ENTIRE budget cut? Like ENTIRELY. What are they supposed to do for the next school year if this happens? Will there be legislation? Do the Egoheads of KU Senate care? Probably not. And yes, my Math TA is getting experience. She is practicing Algebra, teaching it, working on it - it is like research for her career. And a lot of RAs try out, because they plan on working in leadership positions someday - oh, and they get a salary as well. Maybe, you should - I dunno - actually look some stuff up.
Apparently, you're just evil or something. To suggest that those people who work that hard on the Kansan not get paid. Many of the students I know that work on the Kansan plan on working their way up the ladder so that they can not only be an editor, but get paid for it. As stated, without this funding - the editors will not be able to be paid. If the Kansan cannot pay the editors then a lot of editors who NEED that money (not all of us are piggybacked by our sorority/fratern- Oh, I mean super rich parents) will not be able to apply, seeing as how without pay, 40 hours a week working on editing is unrealistic if they have to actually, you know, PAY for college. So, they will go to QuikTrip or something. THEN the idiot fraternity/sorority rich kids whose parents DO pay for everything, but never really got that good at anything, because they didn't have to and they just entered the J-school, because "journalism's like easy, right? and you like get attention, right?" will be chosen to be editors. The editing will, therefore, suck. The people buying ad space will NOT buy ad space, because who wants to buy ad space on a poorly edited, poorly received paper?
And as I said, most arts degrees offer grants for students to create the work they want to anyway. There is money for like almost ANY degree. If not, then they don't provide a service that is pivotal to other students - tough cookies then. If you can't get a grant, a scholarship, a salary for doing what you love in college then your degree likely isn't lucrative anyway - so sorry, I guess? I mean I don't know what to say. "EVERYONE DESERVES MONEY LOL OR NO ONE DESERVES MONEY!"?
Give me a degree on campus and I will tell you how either they can perform a job that will help them with their career that is funded, salaried, or scholarshipped (whatever, made-up words, I know) or their degree isn't really lucrative in the long run anyway.
Therefore, your argument about how the Kansan editing/ad staff does not deserve money is wrong.
Senate Finance Committee passes cuts to media fee
Man, "JayhawkFromOuterspace", you must have a major self esteem issue if you have to bash on Greeks that much.
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