Kansas House passes conceal-carry bill

Intelligent design, Dr. Tiller's murder, the Phelps clan, now guns on campus..............when will Kansans get tired of being the butt of our nation's ridicule?

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• Posted by Kansas79 on March 26, 2010 at 3:38 p.m.
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Kansas House passes conceal-carry bill

does that mean we can have a shooting range on campus? SWEET!

When will people stop lumping guns in with such topics as abortion and intelligent design? I should have the right (with proper training) to obtain a weapon and use it for personal protection. It's just as much of a freedom as a woman's right to choose, or freedom to choose where you want to work regardless of age, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation or veteran status.

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• Posted by sjschlag on March 26, 2010 at 5:42 p.m.
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Kansas House passes conceal-carry bill

It's a good thing Virginia Tech didn't allow guns on its campus 2 years ago. Because criminals obey gun laws...if only us Neanderthals here in Kansas will learn!!!!!!! DURRRRRRR!!!!!!

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• Posted by Savage on March 26, 2010 at 8:09 p.m.
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Kansas House passes conceal-carry bill

I agree with the statement "Hire more cops". I've never quite understood why the students, faculty, and staff felt so safe when all of the "No firearms" sings went up on every entrance to every building after the Virginia Tech incident. Obviously criminals have an absolute disregard to the law, therefore, it is very likely they would disregard that particular law. Furthermore, there was no increase in police patrol or campus security (such as metal detectors) that I could see.

As far as saying you don't need students getting mad about a bad grade, well, that's a silly argument. I'm pretty sure a student could do a lot of damage to a professor in a fit of "bad grade" rage with a their fists and feet, pockets knives, etc. I've still yet to see or hear of a student running up to the front of class and round-house kicking their professor in the head for a bad grade or a stabbing or a physical beating. To act like conceal and carry will all of a sudden cause violence to dramatically increase is ridiculous in my opinion.

Kansas has had conceal and carry for a few years now. I have not heard any news of dramatically increases violence throughout the state of Kansas in relation to this law. So I don't quite understand why people continue to think that our university is going to be the exception and students are going to all of a sudden start shooting people left and right.

As of December of 2009, there have been a total of 23,325 Kansas Conceal and Carry licenses issued in the state of Kansas according to the Attorney General of Kansas. There are people carrying firearms every where you go on a daily basis, you just have no idea who they are. If you're afraid of those people killing you in a fit of road rage, domestic dispute, drunken party, or whatever it may be, I would suggest you stay home and become a shut-in. They're everywhere!

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• Posted by Dan on March 27, 2010 at 7:34 a.m.
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Kansas House passes conceal-carry bill

You don't need a gun to make a scene on a campus

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/818760-eight-children-killed-in-chinese-school-massacre

I refuse to believe we're somehow safer because the buildings on campus are "gun free." Even if guns were outlawed as they effectively are in China, folks will still find ways to kill large numbers of people, using any means necessary, as this story shows.

For me though, its more about personal freedoms. Kansas is a concealed carry state. Our lawmakers have decided that with proper training and a background check, residents over 21 can obtain a permit for concealed carry. It's allowed everywhere else in the state, and I don't see why a school campus should be an exception.

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• Posted by em1 on March 28, 2010 at 12:37 a.m.
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Kansas House passes conceal-carry bill

"Cops have training, an organized system with rules and procedures, and they are accountable for their actions."

Yes, the police wait outside behind cover 'assessing' the situation while they wait on swat to come in and take of the problem. (or at least that's how Virginia Tech was handled) Your statement also seems to imply that those who have conceal and carry licenses would not be held responsible for their actions. Which, needless to say, makes no sense at all because they would be held accountable for their actions just like the police officers.

As stated previously, there have been over 23,000 conceal and carry licenses issued in the state of Kansas alone. We have yet to see huge increases in violence, vigilante law, or gun related deaths in our state. So I still wonder why it is you seem to think our campus would be the exception and all would hellfire and brimstone if students were allowed to conceall and carry on the hill.

If you like, please take a look at the Universities in Utah that are required by state law to allow conceal and carry. Maybe even take a peak at the university down the road from Virginia Tech that allows conceal and carry on campus. Let me know how many conceal and carry gun related deaths/violence/brandishing incidents you find between them all.

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• Posted by Dan on March 28, 2010 at 12:59 p.m.
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Kansas House passes conceal-carry bill

Actually, not. The second amendment is quite clear. The right to bear arms isn't reserved merely for police officers. The constitution aside, banning guns on campus is a fruitless endeavor. Just like the VT shooter, criminals ignore gun laws. If you are going to use a gun to either rob or kill, what does it matter that the gun you are using was carried illegally? The offense of robbery or murder is much more onerous than mere felony possession. So what you have are responsible gun users being treated as criminals even though they have harmed no one, nor intend on harming anyone.

The argument about having more cops isn't well thought out either. In order to have the protection necessary in preventing a VT-type mass murder, you'd need at least 1 cop for every class room, plus more in the hallways, plus more on campus. And even if this was the case, a shooter who ignores the gun law would have to take out the cop before shooting at anyone else. Realistically, however, "when seconds matter, the police are only minutes away." To deny students the right to feel save (however, I will grant you I feel safe here at KU no matter the gun law), because of an irrational fear of guns is childish.

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• Posted by Savage on March 29, 2010 at 11:26 a.m.
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Kansas House passes conceal-carry bill

Conceal and carry is not about vigilante justice. License holders don't try stop people speeding down the highway, or attempt to intervene in a domestic dispute, or even come close to trying to take the law in their own hands. This whole time you've been talking about vigilante justice and I've continued to ask you to give me examples of CC license holders acting out as vigilantes. You have failed to do so. I will continue to ask: If the rest of Kansas has failed to experience vigilantes on the run, how is that KU will be so much different? Why is it you believe KU students with CC licenses will be uncontrollable gun-slingers? There is no evidence that you have presented to suggest this would be the case. I will say it until I'm blue in the face, there are 23,000 (yes that's twenty-three thousand!) CC licenses have been issued in the state of Kansas. Yet somehow Kansas still seems to be free and clear of vigilante law and mad gunmen.

In order to answer your question above let's clear something up first. Possessing a CC license and believing in the right to carry in order to defend oneselve, does not indicate a motive to kill. Armed robberies and attempted (or successful) rapes are two things I want to address under "incidents....that required vigilantes to shoot people." An armed robbery or an attempted rape could possibly be stopped through the use of force from the potential victim. This 'use of force' could be as simple 'brandishing' (i use the word lightly) their weapon or firearm indicating intent to use it should the attacker proceed. No gunshot or death is necessarily involved. But merely showing the intent to protect yourself by whatever means necessary could intimidate the attacker and ward off the attempt.

DISCLAIMER I DO NOT pretend to believe that CC licenses are an end-all solution. I understand that attackers could 'call your bluff' and continue with an attack regardless of how you intend to defend yourself. I merely believe in the right to level the playing field and have adequate opportunity to defend myself.

So, I have given my best answer to your "incidents...that required vigilantes to shoot people", please give me evidence that supports your belief that KU students will fail as CC license holders and exponentailly decrease campus safety.

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• Posted by Dan on March 29, 2010 at 11:42 a.m.
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Kansas House passes conceal-carry bill

First: The people you so lovingly described above are not the individuals who pay for and sit through conceal and carry training. As well, if they are so incapable on campus it is likely they wouldn't pass the conceal and carry license test, so no worries there. Do you realize that a conceal and carry license costs in the neighborhood of $200-$250 or more? Plus the cost of the actual firearm and ammo. Even with a cheap gun from Cabela's you're looking at a ball park figure of $600. Maybe $500 if you find a cheap .22 on sale. That's a decent amount of money to just go and screw up by shooting somebody in a bar. The individuals who go through the entire process and actually conceal and carry are not those who you describe above. CC license holders are obviously law abiding citizens or else they wouldn't go through the all the redtape in order to obtain one. Again, what about Utah and the campus just downt the road from VT? Second: No this bill does not "allow anyone to buy a gun and carry it around campus." Neiher an 18 year old nor a convicted criminal can purchase a handgun or apply for a CC license. Only those individuals who are able to purchase a handgun and apply for (as well as complete) a CC license would be allowed to carry on campus. Third: You're right. Affordable mental healthcare very well may have impacted that man's life enough to prevent the attack. However, the law also failed in this instance. The law allowed him to have those guns despite his history for having been previously admitted to a mental health facility. Some where along the line the law enforcement that you so dearly trust (or claim to trust) failed to find these red flags. However, I do not see how these apply to this situation. That individual still broke the law and carried the firearms onto the campus regardless of the law. It is evident that any individual willing to kill is not going to be hindered by a simple "No guns allowed" window posting or common law. Fourth: I say it again. Ready for this, here we go: over 23,000 CC licenses have been issued in the state of Kansas. For you to say things like: "If one of them flips out in a classroom, we'd have another VT incident" or "Let's just wait until some jackass brings a gun into a bar, gets drunk, and shoots people" it's like arguing that a CC license holder could at any time shoot you up in a fit of road rage or because you're dog left a hefty load of crap on his doorstep. It hasn't happened. I won't dare say it will never happen because there is always a possibility. I feel like a broken record but it just seems like that number is sufficiently high to be statistically significant and provide the results that you say will happen. Quit being emotional about the situation and provide some numbers and evidence that incriminates CC license holders. Doing so will only strengthen your argument and make me re-evaluate my stance on this situation.

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• Posted by Dan on March 29, 2010 at 10:25 p.m.
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