Students respond to concealed weapons bill

That's like saying only the government should have freedom of speech. Police officers are 100 times more likely to commit a crime than the average concealed carry permit holder. It also ignores the fact that when concealed carry goes up, violence goes down.

There have always been chicken littles who scream about the world turning into the wild west if people exercise their second amendment rights. This will make campuses safer.

The worst shootings have all been in "gun-free" zones, from VaTech to Ft. Hood.

If you are going to start carrying I applaud you.

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• Posted by freedomlover on March 30, 2010 at 9:06 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

"Police officers are 100 times more likely to commit a crime than the average concealed carry permit holder." Source?

Also, crime has been going down in the absence of concealed carry. The article states it has fallen 34% over the last decade.

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• Posted by empirelucas on March 30, 2010 at 10:11 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

This is completely ridiculous

Concealed carry laws normalize this bizarre fetishism of guns, where the firearm itself becomes some externalization of personal inadequacies. The issue isn't about personal safety, it is about embodying fantasies of power in the public realm where power is most stripped from the person.

No reasonable person would ever carry a concealed weapon to class. Licensed or otherwise, the concealed weapon carrier is, by definition, a sociopath who values his/her self-confidence over the safety and comfort of others.

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• Posted by asb on March 30, 2010 at 2:01 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Please provide supporting evidence that indicates safety on campus will decrease exponentially when/if this bill goes into effect. When I say evidence, I don't mean theoretical situations that could happen. I mean actual statistics, news reports, or court cases that involve CC license holders using their firearms inappropriately on campus. I narrow the search to campus incidents only because that is the issue at debate here.

kujayhawk has failed to provide this information when I have asked before. I am genuinely interested to see if anyone can find some 'trash' on CC license holders in the campus setting.

However, I will be receptive to evidence against any and all CC license holders, regardless of whether it occurred on a campus or was in the general public. You may also want to provide statistics indicating a rise in crime rates associated with the release of CC licenses to the public. I would be very interested to see this if you can find it.

Like I have said to kujayhawk several times already, there are over 23,000 CC licenses in the state of Kansas alone (according to the Office of Attorney General). If conceal and carry was as dangerous as all of you make it out to be, there ought to be at least one instance where you can demonstrate this.

asb: many would consider the argument won when the opposition resorts to demeaning and insulting comments. I do have a question though. How can my firearm be an "externalization of personal inadequacies" when it is concealed? In order for my firearm to compensate for my personal inadequacies, would I not need it to be visible? If I am required to conceal my firearm there is no demonstration of power. Nobody knows about it and I am still, by all outward appearances, the same 'inadequate' individual.

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• Posted by Dan on March 30, 2010 at 5:18 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Concealed means exactly what is says.

asb:

Your comment is an outright insult. Maybe you've had some experiences in the past that you can enlighten us about. Because NONE of the permit holders I know fit that description. As a father of young adults and college age students, I personally would feel better knowing my family would be able to protect themselves if the need should arise. I think you try this link http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Are_there_any_physical_symptoms_for_a_sociopath

License would not be allowed for people displaying these characteristics. However, the ones displaying these characteristics are generally the ones who carry a weapon unlawfully. Those are the ones you should be worried about instead of law abiding citizen.

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• Posted by Kujiin on March 30, 2010 at 11:05 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

If this passes, I'm getting a concealed carry license and a gun just to piss off all the libs and useless cops on this campus.

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• Posted by Savage on March 30, 2010 at 11:38 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Look at Utah and Colorado State. They are some of the safest campuses around and they allow conceal and carry permit holders on campus with handguns. Colorado State has recently had their right revoked by the Colorado Board of Governors because all the sudden it is dangerous for licensed people to have concealed firearms. I could not find a single problem with a license holder on the CSU campus yet they are still revoking their right to carry "just because." People need to have the ability to protect their "own" life if the time comes. The police are great, but we can't all depend on the police to save us in the heat of the moment during a violent crime. We can depend on them to be there for the aftermath. The only real protection we have as citizens is self defense. I am by no means advising that everyone go out and get a permit and carry a concealed handgun. I am merely saying give the ones who want the ability to protect themselves the right to do so. Criminals will carry concealed without a permit wherever they want whenever they want. This is why gun free zones are an illusion.

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• Posted by millertimemarine on March 31, 2010 at 12:30 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

posted by asb "Concealed carry laws normalize this bizarre fetishism of guns, where the firearm itself becomes some externalization of personal inadequacies. The issue isn't about personal safety, it is about embodying fantasies of power in the public realm where power is most stripped from the person."

I disagree with this assertion. Having the means to protect oneself is a long-standing right and tradition. Those that take self-defense classes are accomplishing the same thing in a less effective way. Martial artists have the capability to inflict grievous bodily harm and even death upon others. While the means might be different, the capability is the same. How would you propose keeping those "bizarre fetishists" out of college classrooms?

Most practitioners of concealed carry are the nicest, most polite people you will ever meet. They have no desire to exert control over anyone else. They have no desire to demonstrate "power in the public realm where power is most stripped from the person."

Of course the fact that "in the public realm where power is most stripped from the person" strips the power to even defend oneself, is exactly the reason we have passed concealed carry legislation in the first place.

It is important to understand that the criminals that would visit harm upon us are not dissuaded by any signs. The signs only serve to keep law-abiding citizens from having the means to proetct themselves against violent criminal actors.

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• Posted by danhammond on March 31, 2010 at 10:05 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Yeah! You tell 'em kujayhawk! And while your at it, lets go after people peacefully expressing their first amendment speech rights too! "Free speech" is just really a code word for hate speech after all right?!?! And how about the fifth amendment? If you did nothin' wrong, you got nothin' to hide, right dawg??? So why should a citizen be allowed to remain silent when the good ole police are just trying to do their job??? I mean, if the 2nd amendment is useless since only cops or military personnel should be allowed to defend themselves/others, then why do the citizens need any other amendment? Hell, we can just have our gov't tell us what to say!

Just because there is "no violent crime" at KU (besides the armed robbery that took place a few months ago at the Rec Center, and other various acts of assault/rape), doesn't mean some pissed off loner won't go postal on innocent students like the VT shooter did.

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• Posted by Savage on March 31, 2010 at 12:09 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

To state that there is no violent crime on the KU campus is just wrong.

from http://www.ku.edu/safety/LawrenceCrimeStatistics2009Quick.pdf

Forcible sex offenses (including forcible rape) 2006- 6 2007-4 2008-4 Robbery 2006-0 2007-1 2008-1 Aggravated assault 2006-2 2007-2 2008-2

And there's more listed there. But I'm sure tht the 14 women (or men) who were raped where really very glad that there are campus police to take their reports and get them counselling.

When seconds matter, as they did at Virginia Tech, the police are only minutes away.

Consider the list at http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266371,00.html, and recognize that NOT ONE of those incidents came as a result of a CCH licensed individual.

There is of course, the Appalachia Law school shootings where two people had to run to their cars to get their guns to respond.

There's the Pearl Mississippi high school shootings where an assistant principle had to run to his truck to retrieve his handgun to hold the shooter until police arrived.

There's the case in Colorado Springs where a CCW holder volunteering at her church used her own gun to stop a man on a shooting spree after he had shot 5 and killed 2. "She probably saved over 100 lives," the Brady Boyd, the pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, said.

and more of course, in their hundreds.

But the nay-sayers would contend that the campus police are the solution. At the very best, the police are minutes away. Most gunfights last a few seconds.

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• Posted by rboatright on March 31, 2010 at 1:14 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Yeah, cuz people drink alcohol means guns should be banned. I guess we should start banning cars too.

The 2nd amendment has never been interpreted to mean that only militias have the right to bear arms. But of course, be wary of those evil, mindless, drunk frat guys who regularly go out shooting innocent people minding their own business like yourself...cuz there's documented evidence of that happening...

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• Posted by Savage on March 31, 2010 at 4:39 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Dear asb QUOTE "This is completely ridiculous

Concealed carry laws normalize this bizarre fetishism of guns, where the firearm itself becomes some externalization of personal inadequacies. The issue isn't about personal safety, it is about embodying fantasies of power in the public realm where power is most stripped from the person.

No reasonable person would ever carry a concealed weapon to class. Licensed or otherwise, the concealed weapon carrier is, by definition, a sociopath who values his/her self-confidence over the safety and comfort of others." END QUOTE from asb

In regards to your first paragraph, is this known fact published some where or is this based on your own personal experience or view?

As for your second paragraph, I did not know that those law enforcement officers that carry a concealed back up gun were sociopaths. Especially when they are off duty and carry a pistol in a conealed holster.

Thank you for your insight, it is obvious to those that actually deal with the real world on a regular basis how correct you are (not).

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• Posted by DaveChase on March 31, 2010 at 6:03 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Dear kujayhawk QUOTE "I would only carry so I wouldn't be afraid to teach my students. This decision is affecting my career choice. I don't want to continue working at a university where people carry guns around. This isn't the wild west. There's no need for guns. If people need guns to feel safe, they should move to the middle of nowhere, far away from civilization. " END QUOTE from kujayhawk

I am sorry about your feelings and your desire to no longer work at a University where peole carry guns around. Please contact KBoR (Kansas Board of Regents) and express your outrage that any law enforcment is allowed on your university carrying firearms. I can feel (through your post) that you have suffered for an extended period of time keeping such emotional reason bottled up having to watch as law enforcement openly carry (and possibly concealed carry) any firearms.

Also, I am sure that if you would only convey these thoughts and reasons to Congress and the President of the United States that they would fully understand and comply. They would most likely inusre that no military carry any type of firearms unless it truly the Wild, west where they are deployed.

Also, please assist me in determining where far away from civilization exists. The last few places I thought I had found, it turns out the media was already there, along with some others telling everyone that they were not living correctly.

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• Posted by DaveChase on March 31, 2010 at 6:21 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

If somebody is has decided that they are going to do something that violates a law to the degree that murder does, the fact that it is illegal is not going to stop them. People are too fearful of guns and too trusting of authority figures.

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• Posted by mitch_who on March 31, 2010 at 8:43 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

@kujayhawk

You know so little about guns and gun owners, you're making assumptions because you have been told 'guns are evil'. I'm almost positive I don't fit your conception of a gun owner and concealed carrier, open your mind a little. Up to an earlier statement, "You don't hear of any women walking to class at 2pm getting raped, now do you?" Well what time of day it is doesn't really matter, crime happens at KU at all times of the day, but you cannot carry at any time. "What if they were intoxicated when it took place? Do we want drunk people to start shooting?" It's illegal to carry intoxicated, and responsible gun owners know that.

Random people may not be trained in the use of guns but those with a CHL are. Not sure what point you're trying to make with coordination, I've manage to type all of this out without much trouble. Hey, if we can get a cop to escort every student at all times the campus would be a lot safer, but financially it's just not plausible.

Gun violence in East Africa is not a result of gun ownership, if you believe that you are completely ignorant. Do you honestly believe that people would stop killing in these areas because their guns are gone?

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• Posted by Dillon on March 31, 2010 at 11:32 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Kujayhawk, have you ever owned a gun? fired a gun? found yourself in a situation where you wish you had a weapon? If you haven't then you are the rare hot house flower. CCL holders have been trained, they are not random. A CCL holder has NEVER been indicted for weapons crime in the entire country. Check out John Locke's book and the FBI crime statistics. An armed citizen is less likely to shoot the wrong person than law enforcement (FBI crime statistics). Most times when a crime or act of violence is deterred by the presence of a weapon, the weapon is never fired (FBI crime statistics) As for the person talking about fetishes; do you realize how much you empower a piece of steel, aluminum, carbon fiber, and lead? You, my friend, are the one with a problem. You tremble in fear at some dread symbol while the rest of us see a weapon as a tool and only a tool.

As for the East Africa comment; most killings there are done with machetes to save on ammunition and do things quietly. It also sounds like a racist comment don't you think?

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• Posted by Calvin on April 1, 2010 at 9:14 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

kujayhawk: You still have not provided evidence to support your (irrational) fear of conceal and carry license holders. You have mentioned numerous "what if" situations but 'what if's' don't carry much weight in debate.

I'm going to assume something. Forgive me. To ASSUME makes an A$$ out of U and ME. Okay, here goes: Based on some of your comments in regards to the atheist who won an award for his videos, I assume you are an atheist. I will also assume that you most likely do not believe in the existence of GOD because there is no scientific EVIDENCE to PROVE the existence of GOD. So I wonder then, how is it that you expect others to take it on faith that conceal and carry on campus will be a terrible thing. If you want people to believe you, then please provide evidence.
Furthermore, I also believe you have stated that you are a professor on campus. Do you teach your classes with 'what if's' and 'could be's'? Or do you use evidence and proof to show the merit and validity of what you say? Unless of course you are a professor of philosophy and theory, then I can see why you wouldn't provide evidence because those are definitely 'what if' kinds of topics.

So, if you do not discredit theists based on their lack of scientific EVIDENCE but rather for some other philosophy or reason, then I am sorry for assuming.

In closing, please provide some evidence to support your belief that all will be hellfire and brimstone, guns and blood if this bill were to pass.

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• Posted by Dan on April 1, 2010 at 6:54 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Dear kujayhawk QUOTE "Cops are trained to use their guns. Random people are are not. Cops are coordinated. Random people are not. Cops are trained to handle violent situations. Random people are not. Do you understand? I want more police, not less. That would provide more jobs for people, and actually make the campus safer. Random people trying to be heroes does not make anything safer.

I suggest eastern Africa, DaveChase. Lots of people there carry guns, and there's plenty of work to be done shooting the bad guys!" END QUOTE from kujayhawk . Yes, Law Enforcement, Detectives, Military, Conceal Carry (CCH) licensees, individuals that take firearm safety, hunting safety and those that just want to learn more about fire arms and take classes are trained. Your statement again alludes to the fact that you honestly believe that only LAW ENFORCEMENT officers (not Cops as you keep calling them) are the only individuals who are trained to handle firearms or violent situations. Please take time to research and educate yourself a bit more on the subject of who is or who is not trained to handle violence and/or firearms. . I personally don't want to carry or travel with my own personal Law Enforcement officer. I can't lift that much and though they would most likely make for some great company, I cant afford to care for an extra individual. . . After re-reading your posts several times, I think I understand where the difficulty lies in your points. Most individuals use the dictionary and its definitions when trying to explain something, You seem to make up what each word means as you use it. . Civilization, please go and look it up. The only place that I know that man has reached or touched that does not have an actual civilization is the Moon. You know that nonhuman made thing that circles the Earth everyday but is not the sun (which the earth circles, just incase you didn't realize that fact). . As for your definition of what bad guys are by using Eastern Africa as an example, WOW, I guess the armed bankrobbery in KC last week, the many different individuals who have comitted murdered in the last year, the man who just got life in prision for Killing the abortation doctor or all those individuals that rape others, must be the most honest and peaceful people in the world. . Please use valid, well thought out, with the actual definition of the words when making your 'arguments'. Or just honestly admit when you make a statement that it is based purely on your passion (emotion). Honesty, I think everyone can accept that versus wild, nonfactual statements that are presented as truths. . Invalid arguments, poor use of word definition and examples that don't match your claim, scare me more coming from some one who claims to be a teacher of others.

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• Posted by DaveChase on April 1, 2010 at 9:44 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Dear kujayhawk, My apologies for not making myself clear about why the confusion on your posts, in particular about using good, examples and statements I will break down one of these in simple terms as possible.

QUOTE "... I don't want to continue working at a university where people carry guns around. This isn't the wild west. There's no need for guns. ..."

... Do you understand? I want more police, not less. That would provide more jobs for people, and actually make the campus safer. ..." END QUOTES by kujayhawk . Your first posting made it very clear that you don't want to work (be around) individuals that carry guns. That there is NO need for guns. . Then in your post in response to mine (and possibly others) you stated, You want more police not less. . Now to break that down using only a few examples of what is wrong with your claims and statements. . First, you don't want guns, yet Law Enforcement carry and use (as required) firearms (guns). But you did not seperate these two things clearly, and so many educated individuals will assume that you don't want anyone to have firearms. . Second, you make claim that having more police (law enforcement) will make the campus safer. Yet in Great Britain, where the Law Enforcement were not allowed to carry or use firearms, the crime still was present. And even when they have and are allowed firearms, crime still exists. . Third, you seem to be not aware that in many places it is difficult to get enough Law Enforcement applicants to meet all the currently required positions. And yet you want to add more Law Enforcement positions, that will be 'magically' filled. . Fourth, using another example of how individuals who break the law will continue to break the law, take speeding. Many people speed, even after getting a ticket many will still speed. When a Law Enforcement officer sits on the side of the road with radar, many will slow down and when out of sight, they will speed again. So, just think about some one who is intends to do harm, do you think that they will just stop because there are 2X, 3X, or even 10X the number of Law Enforcement officers on campus. The only way you might be safe is to have 24/7 coverage by Law Enforcement or have your own body guard. . Let me reccomend some simple things that you could do that might make your life a little less 'stressful'. 1) go hide away were no one can find you, ever or 2) (not as extreme but close) Become a reserve Police Officer on campus or in your local town . Oh, please do feel free to continue to speak your mind (even if many disagree), We do live in United States of America and at this time we can still say what we want, freely.

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• Posted by DaveChase on April 1, 2010 at 11:56 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

kujayhawk, drop the Glenn Beck attacks. The progressives, and the damage they cause, have been around for over a hundred years. You say you're a teacher on campus. I know you're not a history teacher or you would know better. My first paper on things progressive dates back before Glenn Beck was on TV or locally available on the radio. You try to attack arguments by attacking the messenger (or Beck) but the argument still stands. You have failed! Of course you could check out the FBI crime statistics. Just like it sounds; F...B...I Or you could check out Lockes book on gun laws but it has become quite popular with conservatives and gun rights people. So you wouldn't like it. You want something from a "objective" paper like the New York Times or an "objective" TV show like MSNBC.

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• Posted by Calvin on April 2, 2010 at 5:58 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Wow, kujayhawk, is that all you can say . QUOTE "5char" END QUOTE . I figured from a teacher we would get so much more and be educated too.

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• Posted by DaveChase on April 3, 2010 at 9:02 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Give me a break! Several times we have asked to be taught. Shoot, we've been begging you to teach us. I know I've asked numerous times to be taught just exactly what the peril and danger is in allowing conceal and carry on campus. I've heard your opinions and I have asked for evidence, yet you have failed to provide. You have failed to teach us using evidence and support.

Don't tell me we are unwilling to learn when you have failed to provide the lecture material.

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• Posted by Dan on April 3, 2010 at 2:14 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

I have heard something recently that I find very interesting and in a way is kind of related to all these negative gun comments. . . If everyone was as crazy, shoot first, Kill anyone who disagree's with a gun owner, as the anti-gun/pro-gun control claims, then they (the anti-gun/gun control individuals) would be dead already. . . But interestingly enough a vast majority of those 'crazy gun owners' are the exact opposite. They normally ask for and request for facts and reason. They have in the past and present, firmly asked for proof and fact and have listened to those demand more gun control, less guns etc. . It is something to think about. If everything that many of the individuals who make such claims were right, they wouldn't be around any more. . You see, laws only truly followed by Law Abiding individuals. Those who plan and commit crimes don't truly care what the law says. Especially when the punishment is something that they don't care about. In some situations (in some states), some individuals actually desire to have some prision time, so that they can be part of the in group (gang) that they want and to learn some of the techniques on how to commit some crimes. . Just some 'food for thought.'

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• Posted by DaveChase on April 3, 2010 at 4:12 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Pardon me, but isn't normal to quote your sources, especially when quoting? . And such a large block of copying and pasting. Pardon me again, but what exactly does all that mean in relation to either: The topic of gun, gun control and college/universities or The subjects (questions) brought up here about giving facts to support your claims. . Oh, and you included the footnote reference in the material but did not include the footnotes themselves.

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• Posted by DaveChase on April 4, 2010 at 4:54 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Jesus, can you imagine what the football/basketball fights earlier this year would've looked like if this bill were passed in August?

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• Posted by Happy on April 5, 2010 at 11:42 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Happy: "Jesus, can you imagine what the football/basketball fights earlier this year would've looked like if this bill were passed in August?"

There probably wouldn't have been nearly as many fights. Big strong jocks don't tend to mind beating up a smaller easy victim...but they tend to quickly loss interest in such "sport" if the "small-fry" intended victim can negate the strength and size advantage, and effectively defend themselves against the CRIMINAL attack.

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• Posted by Wildfire on April 5, 2010 at 1:56 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

kujayhawk: “Cops are trained to use their guns. Cops are coordinated. Cops are trained to handle violent situations.”

You forgot to mention: Cops are NOT REQUIRED to PROTECT INDIVIDUAL: Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982) (no federal constitutional requirement that police provide protection)

Calogrides v. Mobile, 475 So. 2d 560 (Ala. 1985); Cal Govt. Code 845 (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Calogrides v. Mobile, 846 (no liability for failure to arrest or to retain arrested person in custody)

Davidson v. Westminster, 32 Cal.3d 197, 185, Cal. Rep. 252; 649 P.2d 894 (1982) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Stone v. State 106 Cal.App.3d 924, 165 Cal Rep. 339 (1980) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C.App. 1983) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C.App 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Sapp v. Tallahassee, 348 So.2d 363 (Fla. App. 1st Dist.), cert. denied 354 So.2d 985 (Fla. 1977); Ill. Rec. Stat. 4-102 (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Keane v. Chicago, 98 Ill. App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321 (1st Dist. 1968) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Jamison v. Chicago, 48 Ill. App. 3d 567 (1st Dist. 1977) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Simpson's Food Fair v. Evansville, 272 N.E.2d 871 (Ind. App.) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Silver v. Minneapolis, 170 N.W.2d 206 (Minn. 1969) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Wuetrich V. Delia, 155 N.J. Super. 324, 326, 382, A.2d 929, 930 cert. denied 77 N.J. 486, 391 A.2d 500 (1978) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Chapman v. Philadelphia, 290 Pa. Super. 281, 434 A.2d 753 (Penn. 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Morris v. Musser, 84 Pa. Cmwth. 170, 478 A.2d 937 (1984) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Pop Quiz: Why should a cop risk his life, to protect something that is of such little value (your life) that even the owner is unwilling to protect it?

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• Posted by Wildfire on April 5, 2010 at 2:15 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

To the guy with the poster "OUT OF MY WAY while running over people with a car".... In spite of the fact that it could be unnecessary piece of legislation this does not make your arguments valid. There is a good reason to comply with state laws so citizens who already have the permit could walk in, drive trough the campus area. "Cops are trained to use guns" and so are the people who get license to carry concealed guns. I'm sure there are more people with guns around you than you think, they don't wave it around like you called it. They are like closet gay people, harmless and don't want you to know their secret. What harm did those law-abiding men AND women ever do to you? Really? If you fear of guns you should consider moving "to the middle of nowhere, far away from civilization" "Random people are are not..." - people with CPL are not random, you should check into qualifying for CPL and actually getting approved for one before calling it random. It's the random people carrying a gun without the license, you should worry about.

Personally, I'm skeptical about letting students to carry guns into a classroom, I think that faculty staff should be allowed to carry.

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• Posted by vbldv on April 5, 2010 at 3:38 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

kujayhawk: "No one responded to my wikipedia info or explained why progressivism is bad!!!" Correction: "No one responded to SOMEONE ELSE'S thoughts from wikipedia or explained why progressivism is bad!!!" If the wikipedia poster were to have asked, it could be discussed intelligently. That person's wikipedia thoughts would be a waste to try and discussed with you. That's because you're simply not intelligent enough for discussion of this topic; anything discussed would simply be over your head and force you to run and see what someone else tells you to cut-n-paste.

If you ever learn to articulate your own thoughts (that means "think for yourself")...then we'll see.

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• Posted by Wildfire on April 5, 2010 at 11:16 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

kujayhawk bleats: "Ok, Glenn Beck!"

Hahaha, she's so original! (An no one coulda seen THAT one comin'! [/sarcasm]) Like I said, learn to think for yourself, then get back to me.

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• Posted by Wildfire on April 6, 2010 at 3:03 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

QUOTE from kujayhawk "You can copy and paste text into google and it'll tell you where it came from. In this case, it was wikipedia." END QUOTE . Pardon me. I didn't realize that the definition for Plagiarism has changed. Nor did I expect that a college/university level teacher would do such. . I also did not realize that it was no longer considered proper to have to quote one's source, especially when quoting said source. . Sigh, the times and education must be really changing.

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• Posted by DaveChase on April 6, 2010 at 12:24 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

kujayhawk, your attitude, shortsightedness, and insults do nothing but hurt your cause.

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• Posted by Dillon on April 8, 2010 at 11:55 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

I'm across the border in Missouri... and find this discussion interesting. First off.. kujayhawk.. you're a died in the wool libby!!! Seen WAY too many of your kind not to pick up on you right off.. and your going to "Glenn Beck" etc proves it out.. libbies are unable to stay on subject. Oh, by the way you forgot to blame Bush as well.....LOL!!! Now as to this Subject... more power to you guys if you get this!! You're one step closer to protecting yourselves and DROPPING crime!! (read Kleck and Lott's research) and as to "Cops trained to shoot better".. you'll find in many instances that CITIZENS shoot better than cops! Do your home work. I just went for my MoCCW... old one expired. I shot 140/140. (that's a perfect 140 shots) most cops only shoot the required yearly exercise.. we "sport" types shoot all year. I'd be happy to take on any local cop here in a 1 on 1 challenge! Also.. we've had CCW for what, going on 4 years or so.... No "wild west" shootouts"... no "blood in the streets".. all the cliche's the libbies use in terror...... It's all B.S.!! Funny you use an Avatar showing VIOLENCE to an innocent unarmed unprotected group..... are YOU a violent type?? LOL!! Oh, you asked for a site as to "cops committing crimes"... try doing a bit of research on KATRINA!! What happened when local cops were "on their own'!!! Went out of control.... illegal search and seizures, confiscation, THEFTS, and SHOOTINGS! There are some doing prison time now over this,,, does THAT answer your question?? I can find plenty more if you wish! Try using Google for more than the latest "movie listings" or "Obama fan club" rally info! LOL!!

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• Posted by Hankster58 on April 14, 2010 at 3:07 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Hankster58, you are trolling And of course kujayhawk couldn't resist the bait

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• Posted by DaveChase on April 15, 2010 at 4:06 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

I completely agree with kujayhawk. Honestly I don't know much about guns or shooting them but here's something we can all agree on - guns kill people. The less guns there are on campus the less likely someone without training or a permit is to grab/steal one. If you're really that concerned about defending yourself take a self defense class and don't rely on something that could land you behind bars.

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• Posted by fotoman228 on May 2, 2010 at 1:23 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

fotoman228, 20 days later after the fury is done, you pip in with I agree with someone cause guns kills. . Show me where you also support the removal of all automobiles, since they also have killed and maimed individuals and maybe we will believe your honest opinion. . I didn't realize that only those with out training or a permit are the only ones who will attempt to break the law. . And if I do recall correctly, self defense requires that you most times assualt your would be attacker. And unless you are highly trained (and in the movies), if that individual(s) attacking you have 'guns' or other weapons and you have none, you will lose. . Makes me wonder if you are not just trolling with this late and head nodding post. You are entitled to your opinion, just wish you would use more facts and knowledge to base that opinion on.

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• Posted by DaveChase on May 4, 2010 at 7:10 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

The reason people question those who legally conceal and carry is because they are afraid to question the people who illegally carry.

I suggest the people who are against conceal and carry on campus go strolling around certain neighborhoods in Topeka or Kansas City. Start telling people in the ghetto about why they are wrong for using guns. Maybe it will save some lives of people hit by their stray bullets.

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• Posted by on May 4, 2010 at 8:39 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Gun control advocates only want to control those who can meet all the legal requirements for ownership and use.

They will not start programs in the black and hispanic communities to reduce their illegal ownership. Despite being pro-big government, they don't advocate the National Guard going house to house in the neighborhoods with the most gun crime.

They only seek to control those who abide by the law. They are afraid because they know they are weak (read: unarmed)

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• Posted by on May 4, 2010 at 12:50 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Sure, guns kill people and so do vehicles. However, vehicles are not intended for the sole purpose of killing, while guns are.

Here's something from the article that points out that concealed carry is generally unnecessary: "[Jill Jess, University spokeswoman] said that overall campus crime was down 34 percent over the last decade."

Accidental discharge is also an increased possibility whenever more guns are brought into play. We don't hear about it too often when concealed carry is involved, but of course, the probability of accidental discharged among unarmed individuals is ZERO, while it is nonzero among armed individuals. Sure, those with a concealed carry license have training about this kind of stuff, but when it comes exam time and students are stressed, who wants to bet that at least some of those running on a lack of sleep might forget to secure their weapons?

Also, would the campus police have made such a big effort to ensure the safety and security of the occupants of McCollum Hall in the latest incident had concealed carry (and thus having a weapon on campus) been legal?

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• Posted by ebenavid on May 11, 2010 at 10:08 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

If probability is being brought up, why only analyze the law abiding citizens?

Why do you not cite the probability that people will brazenly threaten or shoot others?

Focusing only on the law abiding citizen reveals the fact that the application of logic in this situation is partial, at best.

It is feeling instead of thinking.

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• Posted by on May 11, 2010 at 1:53 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

ebenavid, having a weapon on campus is legal if certain conditions are met. Threatening people with one is not.

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• Posted by on May 11, 2010 at 1:54 p.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

I'm surprised that KU jyhwk is so racist at times. The comments about the ghetto...

Many years ago I heard a man on the radio who claimed he was a liberal and proud of it. He then went on to to say that affirmative action was necessary on the college campuses because black people were less intelligent and needed the help. Barry Farber was the host and he ask about Asian people. The caller said that they do okay because they gifted when it comes to academia but black people and Hispanics were behind the proverbial 8-ball. Barry let him talk for about 10 minutes and it was absolutely illustrated about the soft bigotry of the left. KU jayhwk, I see you!!!

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• Posted by Calvin on May 12, 2010 at 1:34 a.m.
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Students respond to concealed weapons bill

Restricting the rights of law abiding citizens with respect to gun ownership and use is a subject rife with racial undertones. If you don't see why, you probably shouldn't debate the topic.

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• Posted by on May 12, 2010 at 11:12 a.m.
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