Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

The problem here was the new rule was kept under wraps.

"The problem with establishing this rule during the first camping games is that not everyone camps for the exhibition games because camping isn’t necessary to get good seats." -Explains it perfectly.

My group camped every game. If we had known about the lottery rule we would have been at EVERY lottery. We, and many others had no idea since no one ever mentioned it.

The fact that @KU_BBallCamping never tweeted about it until Wednesday gives credibility to the idea that maybe no one ever mentioned it because the select few "in on it" wanted the best seats for themselves.

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• Posted by JayhawkOne on February 16, 2012 at 9:27 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

But it is some rule you pulled out of the air, Johnson. It was a way to make sure that you got better seats. By not making an official public announcement, you left hundreds of campers in the dark. So obviously the people who knew about this rule would go to every lottery, because then they knew they would get good seats. But you basically screwed over everyone who didn't know, and not only is that unfair, but it's lying. And don't try to say "well if you were a dedicated fan and went to every lottery you would have known about this rule" because if 60+ groups were at the first lottery, you never would have made this rule, because it would not have been enforceable... Everyone would have gone to every lottery.

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• Posted by jjakowatz on February 16, 2012 at 9:36 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

There are so many things wrong with this. Like the previous commenters stated, it was kept under wraps. They're getting rewarded for their dedication? The reward is getting to experience every game at Allen Fieldhouse! My group didn't attended every lottery, but we DID camp for every game, so does that mean we're not dedicated fans? Other students who couldn't make it to lottery or had conflicts with camping and weren't able to do it, feel under appreciated and feel like they're being punished in a way. I'm a sophomore, but I know a lot of freshman didn't know how to camp or how it worked at the beginning of the year, therefore did not have a camping group together. It wasn't until game 5 or 6 that they got the hang of it, and they're being punished for it. Giving priority seating to those groups makes it impossible for any of the other campers to get a close seat at the game. If you're a fan of KU, it won't matter to you if you're in the front row or the rafters! BEING IN AFH IS THE REWARD!

Also, now if a group were for some reason miss two lotteries next season, they know they won't be able to get priority seating, meaning they're going to either stop showing up to games or stop camping. Why would they waste their time if other groups are getting special treatment?

If this continues next year, there are going to be way more than 24 groups that go to lottery for every game. This means two things; one, AFH will have to be open for every lottery so as not to run into a problem like there was with Ohio State. Two, are they planning on letting the (most likely) 50+ groups all have priority seating next year? Then Athletics will have an even bigger backlash from students than they're having now. Best not to do this at all and save yourself the trouble of a lot of angry students who pay good money to get the experience at AFH and cheer on their school.

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• Posted by e212p713 on February 16, 2012 at 10:41 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

are you kidding me? i am in one of the groups who gets priority seating or whatever and we didn't camp for any exhibition or even the first couple no name games and no games over break. so stop your bitchin. that was taken into consideration. i love the idea. it's bogus when all these people decide to create a group just for the mizzou game. if you haven't been camping and going to games all year, then you shouldn't have some right by some random chance of luck to get a good seat. save that for the people who go all the time and are true fans. this is about the sanctity of kansas basketball which we people who are loyal to truly understand. flakes.

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• Posted by arineliza on February 16, 2012 at 10:48 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

Arineliza, of course you love the idea, you're in a group that gets priority seating. You didn't camp for every game, yet you still get priority seating. That's exactly the problem.

"if you haven't been camping and going to games all year, then you shouldn't have some right by some random chance of luck to get a good seat."

According to what you just said...this means your group shouldn't be favored? Perhaps I'm wrong, I did have to read that quite a few times to understand what you were trying to say.

Leave the system as it is. We are all students here and we all deserve an equal chance, no matter what.

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• Posted by arhines on February 16, 2012 at 11:02 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

to be honest, since they decided to implement this new rule -- there's always going to be SOMEONE getting the shaft.

these groups that are supposed to be getting priority seating will think it's unfair if it gets taken away from them. those who aren't getting priority seating obviously don't think the situation is fair.

coming up with this idea to begin with was just not a good idea. cause there's ALWAYS going to be someone unhappy with the situation, and therefore there will ALWAYS be someone bitching about it.

there was nothing wrong with the camping system to begin with, we shouldn't be coming up with new rules out of the blue. let's stick with how camping has always been.

after all -- THE WHOLE POINT OF LOTTERY IS TO BE RANDOM. let's not lose sight of this. because now these 24 groups have a RIDICULOUS superiority complex and need to realize that just because they go to every lottery doesn't mean that they're better or more dedicated. my group camped for almost every game -- but we didn't necessarily go to lottery every time. so that means we're not dedicated? I call BULLSHIT.

i pay JUST AS MUCH for my tickets as everyone else does -- i deserve an equal chance to get good seats.

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• Posted by its_amandaYDG on February 16, 2012 at 11:09 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

My question is, why now? Why today? Students have been camping for a long time and it's been run by many different people. If this rule were beneficial, or necessary, wouldn't someone else have come up with it before this year? Why does this particular person decide that they want to completely change the way lottery works because they think they are a better fan? Does going to more lotteries make you a better fan? If that's the case then everyone move out of the way, I've been attending KU basketball since I was a child. I should get the best seat in the house.

Now doesn't that sound stupid? This rule is a childish backlash against the thing that the only supporting commentator said: " it's bogus when all these people decide to create a group just for the mizzou game." You know what? Maybe Mizzou is the only game some of these people can go to. Maybe they're double majoring in Engineering and Math, and can only spare one game a year. They still want a chance at a decent seat though, so they camp. This rule is unfair to the people who are only able to go to one game and pick the "best" game of the year: our rivalry.

You aren't better than someone just because you went to more games. You don't deserve to step on everyone else's head. Your reward for going to every lottery was a good seat and a great game. Your reward is cheering for Kansas and being proud of your team. Your reward is seeing great players and a great coach live and in the flesh. Your reward was a great memory that you can cherish.

Everyone deserves a fair chance at having fun in Allen Field House, and in the end, if this rule is implemented, it will only drive younger students away. And eventually, AFH wont be the best House to play in any more. What's good for the select 23 is bad for the whole.

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• Posted by ktodd67 on February 17, 2012 at midnight
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

Maybe if all you true fans came to every session to camp for tickets then you wouldn't be complaining, don't get mad the hardcore fans came every time to get tickets for every game whereas the rest of you chose to come whenever it was not a practice game, select 23 and proud, rock chalk this hard

go hard in the paint

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• Posted by LegitCampingKUfan on February 17, 2012 at 12:14 a.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

I am part of one of the 24 groups that have (at least for now) priority seating. We didn't have anything going on the inside with the people who are the camping directors. We just didn't miss a lottery and we camped for every game. Was it poorly communicated? Yes. But did they tell the groups who were there at the beginning of the year? Yes. I'm sorry they changed it and that some people didn't hear about it, but I think the majority of people who camp consistently heard about it. Besides they only ended up counting 7 games towards this rule and I heard they are considering a new policy of whether or not to tier the system to please the masses (making a separate tier for groups that have missed 0,1,2, and even up to 3 lotteries). I think it would be very unfair to take away the priority seating for the top groups, at least selfishly, because it was already promised to us. While there while be a 100+ groups possibly angry with this plan, the 24 groups have been already promised something, and taking that away will make them far more angry than the people fighting for a equal lottery. I actually do understand the argument that this plan would hurt enthusiasm for camping, but it is just for one game (albeit one of the biggest ever in the Fieldhouse).

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• Posted by dcjayhawk on February 17, 2012 at 8:34 a.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

It honestly blows my mind that a group of students think they have the right to better seats over other students. You did not pay more money for your ticket therefore why should you get a better seat? If this was a true rule then why isn't it posted here: http://www.kuathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120204aaa.html since that is the list of the official rules.

Just because you may have camped for every game doesn't mean you are a more dedicated or truer fan than those students who were busy studying abroad last semester, studying nightly, working a job to pay for school, involved in a sport or organization, and/or couldn't attend for a number of other reasons. As Jenna stated, the dedication of our students is shown in the banners that hang in Allen Fieldhouse. Your reward? The chance to be there. And if you are the "true and dedicated" fans that you say you are then you should know more than anyone that it doesn't matter where you sit in the fieldhouse, front row or in the rafters, you are still in the fieldhouse and you still have the best seats in the country.

I'm sorry you were promised this incentive by a person who could not make that promise. Maybe the anger should be directed at that person for their false promises instead of the rest of the student population who are fighting for what is fair and equal as well as what is tradition.

If this incentive program was really to increase the number of camping groups then why wasn't it advertised in the UDK, Tweeted about, and put on Facebook or at least written on the rule sheet? But in all honesty, do we really need to increase attendance of students at basketball games? The fieldhouse has the most consecutive sell-outs in the country largely due to the dedication and passion of our students.

Lastly, implementing this new rule will truly destory our camping process which has been said by ESPN to be the best in the country. Want to know why it works? Because we have a mutual respect for each other. Yes, it is competitive but it's a fun competition because you know that you have just as much chance at drawing number one as the person next to you. With this new process you will see a decrease in campers as people will not see it as worthwhile or you may see an entire destruction of the process since no one will respect the rules. We should be united against opposing teams and not creating a divide amongst each other.

Maybe it should boil down to the old adage "if ain't broke, don't fix it."

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• Posted by kt1721 on February 17, 2012 at 10:13 a.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

1) It was poorly communicated and therefore completely unfair. Expecting people to abide by a rule that they had no idea existed is ridiculous.

2) Everyone bought tickets to the student section. Randomization is the only fair way to distribute seats unless some people paid more than others.

3) If you are going to change a HUGE tradition you better have a good fucking reason and be extremely public in telling people. Anything else just looks like favoritism or shoddy management.

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• Posted by conei116 on February 17, 2012 at 10:27 a.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

How on earth could you possibly think this rule would work if everyone knew from the start that in order to get the best seats, that they would need to be present at every lottery? I'll tell you: everyone would be at every lottery, which means that there would be no tier system, just one huge mass of very dedicated fans. You can't promise "select" groups the top 20 spots if 60+ groups are showing up to every lottery. The fact of the matter is, is that you kept this in the dark for a reason. Without everyone knowing, you can ensure that the best seats are saved for yourselves. There's a reason the backlash is so intense right now, and that's because the majority of people didn't find out about this until Wednesday. So your argument is that you are the more dedicated fans. But had you made a public announcement about this rule, I can guarantee you that it would have never worked out with every group coming to every lottery, because trust me, we're just as dedicated as you.

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• Posted by jjakowatz on February 17, 2012 at 11:03 a.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

I echo what everyone has been posting thus far. Not only is the rule cheating the system, but it also was not communicated to every camping group in one way, shape or form. As @kt1721 posted, it wasn't tweeted about, Facebook-ed about, or posted in the UDK. Quite ridiculous to think that "everyone" knew about it from the get-go. If it was so "widely-known," then there wouldn't have been a secret meeting of the 24 groups who are so-called "better fans" after the Texas Tech lottery. It appears as if Mr. Johnson just wants his group to be guaranteed one of the top spots for the Mizzou game, after they drew a higher number for recent games.

Let's cut the crap, leave lottery the way it is, and worry about "Mucking Fizzou" in the coming week! Rock Chalk! "History does repeat itself, it's called tradition." #savelottery

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• Posted by jhawkpb23 on February 17, 2012 at 11:17 a.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

I admit the random system is better. My group honestly thought that was going to happen when the Mizzou lottery came around. We didn't remember what he said at the BEGINNING OF THE YEAR. which was if you go to every lottery then he would put you on a list that would have priority seats at the Mizzou game. I'm sorry that it was voted upon at the beginning of the year by a whole bunch of groups. Plus it is unfair to say that people can't attend lottery for a # of different reasons. the reason it is at 6 am is so us students can attend it w/o missing class, work, or an organization meeting. All you need is 5 people from a group to draw and be considered at lottery. Your entire group doesn't have to be there. I understand the point that people have stuff to do, but come on. I have a job, take classes, and involved in a student organization and that doesn't mean i can't go to lottery every time.

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• Posted by dcjayhawk on February 17, 2012 at 11:56 a.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

dcjayhawk - No one is saying the lottery is difficult to attend. Thats not the issue. the issue is many of the outraged camping groups, including my own would have attended every single lottery if we had known about the Mizzou incentive.

I don't believe this rule will stand due to the public outcry.

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• Posted by JayhawkOne on February 17, 2012 at 12:17 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

JayhawkOne- Haha I agree that the rule probably won't stand, I am trying to be a voice of reason for the side that is part of the 24. We just were promised something, and that would be a huge bummer if it were taken away. And don't forget that those group in the 24 will be really pissed off.

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• Posted by dcjayhawk on February 17, 2012 at 12:30 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

As a recent graduate, who belonged to a camping group ("Welcome to Lawrence, B!tch"), that didn't miss a lottery in three years, I feel like my opinion may be slightly less biased and more removed than some of you angry campers. You are probably wondering why I'm posting if I don't have a direct involvement in the issue (since I'm no longer a student or camping), and to that question I would answer that I love KU basketball and miss camping (and the heat in this debate is slightly infectious). So here is what I have to say, if you are interested. I doubt it will affect the outcome at all, but here it goes.

First, I will say that I sympathize with the "dedicated campers" who have camped for every game all year. It sucks when you get a crappy number for the big games due to the huge number of "big game only" camping groups. That being said, the only valid argument that I have read so far is that everyone paid the same amount for the ticket (most likely a sports pass which means that they have paid for every game), so the only two fair ways to designate seats are to do a first-come-first-serve scenario, or to distribute them randomly. And, since the-first come-first-serve thing used to be the way things were done before camping was slightly regulated, I'm guessing that didn't work out too well. If you have gone to every game and are stuck up in the second tear for one of the big games, then I guess you will just have to suck it up and be satisfied with the fact that AFH is packed and rockin' (plus, you have a better chance at catching some of those parachute t-shirts!).

Lastly, I would like to address two of the arguments listed above. The first is that people are mad because the "new rule" was not instated professionally enough. To these people, I would like to remind them that camping is not a professional organization. It is simply a student in one of the groups that organizes things. There is no official site, where you can glean information. The second is that people are mad that a new rule was proposed and that thing should stay the way they are. I'm not saying I'm for the new rule (because I'm not), but if nobody wanted to change the way things are done, then we would still be camping outside for 24 hours a day. Change happens. Vote on it (there's no way it will pass, so I don't think there is anything to worry about) and move on.

Rock Chalk!

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• Posted by aerojayhawk on February 17, 2012 at 1 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

Oh, and one more thing (since I think the "dedicated campers" need some love). To the people who say that they are too busy to come to all of the games: I was an engineering major, worked two jobs, had plenty of extracurriculars, and still made it to the games. So you need to suck it up too.

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• Posted by aerojayhawk on February 17, 2012 at 1:05 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

@aerojayhawk - Some engineers have class during game times. Specifically Formula Racing ME's

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• Posted by JayhawkOne on February 17, 2012 at 3:45 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

Having been to all 19 lotteries so far this year i can personally say there is a HUGE difference between camping for every game and going to lottery for every game. Lottery is a true test of dedication towards the team. Its early, cold, and normally very very crowded. If you didn't know that lottery hasn't been inside the field house all year, actually in the arena not including the concourse, then i think i should be guaranteed a better seat than you for the missouri game. The best analogy i can think of for this is if a teacher said if you attend every class in the school year you automatically get a 100% on the final. That would be pretty good reason to always go to class. But if you missed the first class then your SOL.

This was never a secret.

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• Posted by bulltown on February 17, 2012 at 8:34 p.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

Lottery is a true test of dedication towards the team. Its early, cold, and normally very very crowded.

Excuse me? And camping at 6 am every week is not? I will admit that it is not crowded, but it is earlier, and often colder for me because I get there between 5:30 and 5:45 to make sure that I absolutly get in before 6:00 am. Am I less dedicated than you?

And to everyone who is part of the 24 groups. Did anyone, ever, tell another group about this? Even once?

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• Posted by morningshift on February 18, 2012 at 10:40 a.m.
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Men’s basketball camping tradition changes, students outraged

hm

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• Posted by Blammo on February 18, 2012 at 8:06 p.m.
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